Author Topic: What do you think about this quote? (Read 2772 times)

Viking · « **Reply #90 on:** December 19, 2006, 10:31:17 PM »

BS. UN/NATO service is voluntary in Europe.

ByeBye · « **Reply #91 on:** December 19, 2006, 10:42:32 PM »

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Originally posted by Viking
BS. UN/NATO service is voluntary in Europe.

So why did you volunteer?

john9001 · « **Reply #92 on:** December 19, 2006, 11:06:19 PM »

i like europe, it's a cute little country.

Toad · « **Reply #93 on:** December 19, 2006, 11:48:41 PM »

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Originally posted by Viking
Please stick to what I write, not what you think I’m thinking.

I think I'll comment as I like, thanks. Statement stands; that's what I think of you and your ilk.

I'll wager you this if the USMC had been there and ordered to defend the civilians, they would have done so irrespective of wished for air cover or anthing else. In doing so, they would have changed the UN into a much more relevant organization.

It's the difference between Spartans and the Dutch.

Viking · « **Reply #94 on:** December 20, 2006, 12:08:22 AM »

A US Marine Corps officer disagrees with you. And that as they say ... is that.

Debonair · « **Reply #95 on:** December 20, 2006, 12:09:39 AM »

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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
What do you think about this quote?...

boring

SteveBailey · « **Reply #96 on:** December 20, 2006, 01:54:59 AM »

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The UN proved it’s impotence by not giving Dutchbatt the ability to defend themselves, let alone the civilians.

AMEN,

Silat · « **Reply #97 on:** December 20, 2006, 02:33:12 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad
I served, sir. 7 years, voluntary enlistment, joined during the VietNam war.

As to it being an excellent example, it is indeed. It is even allegorical, from my point of view.

The Spartans and the Thespians sacrificed themselves against impossible odds to block the only invasion route the Persians could use.

They delayed the Persian advance long enough for the main body of the Greek army to escape and caused enormous casualties on the Persian side; modern estimates are 20,000 Persian losses.

The self-sacrifice at Thermopylae made the victory at Salamis possible. Salamis is widely considered a turning point in the history of Western Civilization.

So, indeed, it was a glorious sacrifice with results well worth the price.

As has been pointed out above, had the Dutch at Sebrenica had the courage of the Spartans, that too would have been a turning point in the history of Western Civilization and could have finally made the UN a relevant force in the world.

However, their inability to put anything above self...so common, imo, in Euros like yourself... doomed 8000 innocents to genocide. Genocide in which the Dutch assisted in the separation of the victims from the crowd as we have seen.

It also continued the abysmal record of the UN in protecting the innocent and the UN's continued slide into irrelevance.

The Spartan's epitaph was

Too bad the Dutch will never earn such an epitaph.

Their shame will live forever, a stark counterpoint to the honor of the Spartans and Thespians.

If the Dutch knew what was happening then maybe the written attack you are all giving them would be justified. But my understanding is they did not know the truth. And they were under orders by others who had political reasons for their decisions.

VermGhost · « **Reply #98 on:** December 20, 2006, 03:05:13 AM »

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Originally posted by Viking
BS. UN/NATO service is voluntary in Europe.

I'm talking about individual countries here. Last time I checked the UN was not a single country.

Viking · « **Reply #99 on:** December 20, 2006, 03:36:45 AM »

In which European country is UN/NATO service not voluntary then?

straffo · « **Reply #100 on:** December 20, 2006, 04:16:47 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad
As has been pointed out above, had the Dutch at Sebrenica had the courage of the Spartans, that too would have been a turning point in the history of Western Civilization and could have finally made the UN a relevant force in the world.

Or not,you're only guessing.

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Originally posted by john9001
with that attitude i can understand how Germany walked through Belgium, Holland, Denmark, and Norway.

Fortunatly the civilian where protected by the fierce defense of the US soldier.

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Originally posted by VermGhost
I think the probably with several northern european countries is that they legally enforced compulsory military service, instead of the US which stresses the individuality of a person for honorably putting themselves in the place of another who is not as able to defend their person as the service person is. Being legally bound to serve in the military, with no choice for a set amount of time is detrimental to an individual's contribution or acknowledgement of a person's sacrafice by enlisting.

It is obvious that is a serious LACK of common morals and principles that are absent from some soldiers and some countrymen like yourself Viking. I think this display is shameful.

In addition I think you misinterpret the point behind honor and protecting people weaker than you (general you). Americans don't do it for glory or the honor to a namesake, we do these things because they are: our jobs, our principles, and it gives people less fortunate than us(servicemen and women) the chance to see another sunrise.

I had no honor when I was the army ,just because I was a conscript ?
Blech...

Thrawn · « **Reply #101 on:** December 20, 2006, 09:10:05 AM »

Get off your high horse Toad. It's not like the Dutch did the slaughtering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre

Toad · « **Reply #102 on:** December 20, 2006, 10:12:51 AM »

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Originally posted by Viking
A US Marine Corps officer disagrees with you. And that as they say ... is that.

Actually, if you read your own cut'npaste, the US Marine Officer says the Srebenica operation was the typical UN ClusterFox from the very get-go. His analyis clearly shows why the UN is such an incapable and irrelevant organization when it comes to protecting the oppressed.

Nowhere in that clip does the US Marine Officer say that given the exact same circumstances and orders that he would have surrendered without a fight.

I believe, much to the contrary, had that Marine Officer been given the same orders in the same exact situation with the same number of men and amount of ammunition, he'd have said "Aye, aye, sir!" and engaged the Serbs when they tried to take the town.

And that, as they say IS that.

Toad · « **Reply #103 on:** December 20, 2006, 10:19:36 AM »

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Originally posted by straffo
Or not,you're only guessing.

Guessing based on my belief that it is better to oppose genocide than to stand by and watch it happen.

Since it would have been such a huge differerence from previous UN inaction in the face of genocide, I believe it would have been a watershed event in the history of the UN. Thus, a new relevant UN would have had a huge effect on civilization, much like the Spartan's sacrifice enabled the victory at Salamis.

YMMV.

Toad · « **Reply #104 on:** December 20, 2006, 10:37:47 AM »

Thrawn, I know there are abyssmal stains on the honor of my nation's military. My Lai is one of them. At least that crime was pursued in the courts, more than you can say for some other nation's military excesses.

Overall, I am quite satisfied with my country's record of helping others.