Crash on takeoff

[liqermixr]

thanks for the info fuzeman, i will check this out and try to calibrate the x52 again,
Phil:aok

[fuzeman]

I'd hit that 'Default Map' button a little sooner than it mentions it in the help file.

Also as mentioned engine torque and other factors turn the plane like that on manual, non auto takeoff enabled, takeoffs.
You need to add rudder in the same direction the propeller spins.
P-38 with counter rotating props negate the effect.

[liqermixr]

i dont think the rudder is enabeled because i have tried to use it twisting both ways, its clear to me that i need to completly remap my buttons and pov's on the saitek, i tried it with combat sim last night and it worked great until i hit a button and got an outside view of the plane then i could not get my cockpit view again before i crashed and burned, maybe this controller just has to many bells and whitles on it for me to keep them all straight. maybe i should just go get a different controller for this game and use the saitek for the sim, kind of defeats the purpose of the investment tho. 125.00 bucks for this controller and you think it would almost fly itself. Im not a quiter tho and i will keep trying.....thanks:cry

[The Fugitive]

you have to calibrate your stick in the game as well as in windows. In the game, go to "map controllers", select your stick in the top drop down menu. Click the "advanced" button to open the scaling window. In the lower right box click on the axis you wish to calibrate, or test.

With the "advanced" window open you should see some blue boxes with a line across it. This displays the raw data of the axis you are working with. Click on the calibrate button, a window will open and say to "move the axis in the full range of motion a couple of time", or something like that. Watch the blue boxes to see if you are getting an input. You MUST do this for each axis that you have.

In my case I have a full CH set-up so I have a bunch !! 2 for the joystick, one for the throttle, and one for the mini joystick on the throttle, one for the rudder axis, and I belive I'll have another pair for the toe brakes, tho Im not sure about that as I havn't set-up my new Pro Pedals yet  

You should be able to get movement out of all your axis with no problem. Once thats done, you can go to the key mapping set-up and do all those buttons  

[mtnman]

I have been playing AH 5 or so years now.  I am currently using the Saitek X52 as well, and know many others that do too.  I have been using the X52 for over a year, and consider it the flat out best stick I've ever used.  It is not your problem.

There are 3 things you need to look at.

1- Make sure your stick is mapped correctly for all flight axi's, and flight functions.  Do this on the clipboard, undr Options, Controls, Map Joystick.

2- Make sure your stick is calibrated, both in Windows, and in the game.  Sounds like you know how to do this.

3-Lock your tailwheel by holding the stick back about 1/3-1/2 way (up elevator) during the first part of your take-off roll.  The tailwheel is a free-turning castor type deal, kinda like the front wheel of a shopping cart.  Without locking it, it is pretty difficult to control for a new pilot.  Locking it will reduce the yawing you are experiencing, but the wheel itself will still roll freely.  
Once you have sufficient forward speed to make your rudder effective, you can ease the stick back to neutral, before lifting off.  That will allow your tail to lift, and keep you from lifting off too slow and "wallowing".

I would recommend sitting on the runway, and using your views to verify that your ailerons, rudder, elevator, and flaps move and function as you would expect before even bothering to turn the engine on.  If not, you can continue to fix them while sitting in the plane by bringing your clipboard up.  If they aren't doing what they should, don't frustrate yourself by trying to take off.  It won't work.

If you can't see your rudder and elevator while in the cockpit, you need to adjust your views.  Trust me, if you can't see them , you also won't see the bad guy behind you, and you will soon be taking off again.

To adjust your views, first map them, and then adjust them.  Some are mapped already, but not all of them.

I recommend you map your lower center HAt switch on your stick to views, and one of the buttons on you throttle.  I like the button #7 on my throttle as "Look Up".  It is the button your left thumb sits on.

On the hat switch, map your views like a stop sign.  Look left/right, Look left front, right front, rght/left rear, and look back.  Pushing the HAT switch straight forward should be mapped as "Look up Front".  Using the HAT switch to look left, while holding the "Look Up" button with your left thumb, will allow you to look "Up left", etc.

Next, and very important, is to adjust every view, for every plane.  I do this the first time I fly any different plane.  You can even do it while climbing/flying to the fight.  Once done, it locks the adjustment in your game folder, and saves it.

Do this by holding a given view on your HAT switch.  Use the four arrow keys to slide your head left/right, forward and back, for the best view.  Use the "Page Up" and "Page Down" keys to slide your head up or down.  Once the view is adjusted to your liking, hit the F10 key to save it.  You need to save it with F10 without letting go of the HAT switch, or your adjustments will be lost before you save them.  I mapped the #5 key on my keypad to "Look Up" also, to make this easier.  I can hold the up view with my index finger, and tap the adjustment keys and F10 with my other fingers.  Awkward, but it works.

You are just experiencing some set-up related frustrations, and will get them resolved.  There will be other frustrations, as this game has a VERY steep learning curve.  Keep at it though, it IS worth it.

Look me up if you have anything you need/want help with.  I am always willing to help.

MtnMan

[liqermixr]

Hey Mtnman,
Thanks for the info bro, I just spent 2 hours messing with this thing and im starting to understand now what buttons need to do what job. after spending all that time i tried to fly using auto take off and as soon as i had control i lost all control and ate some earth  I am however learning by my mistakes. The pure joy that we all get from flying is what will keep me going until i get it right. I do understand that there is a serious learning curve to this and although im not the sharpest tool in the shed im sure that with the help everybody is giving me i will eventually get my butt up into the air just so you guys can  shoot me back down again:)  nothing like wearing a bullseye on your plane for a few months to get you motivated tho.I wonder once i become sufficiant with this game if that will make my real flight lessons easier.
Thanks again, i look forward to chatting with all of you.
Phil ( liqermixr )

[mtnman]

Glad to help liqermixr!    I see we share a first name too :^)

Since we have the same stick, I'll share some of my mappings, in case you like them.

On the throttle, in addition to the Look Up I already discussed-

The biggest blue button (has a big E on it)-Gear toggle

The hat switch on the front of the stick, accessed with your left index finger-

Mapped so pulling it "up" or toward you, is "Flaps down", and pushing it away is "Flaps Up".  Also mapped so Pushing it left/right slides your head left/right, exactly as the arrow keys do.  I use this A LOT because I basically only fly the F4U's, and I need to slide my head left/right while looking back to really check my six.  If you do this, and look forward again  by releasing the HAT switch, you may need to tap the HAT again to center you forward view again.  Just a quick tap will do it...

On the stick itself, I recommend the following-

The top left HAT switch mapped so pushing it left/right is manual trim adjustment for AILERONS, and forward/backward is trim for down and up ELEVATOR respectively.  Having trims mapped will make it easier to land, etc.  Also useful when damage occurs to a wing, aileron, elevator, etc.  This sometimes happens when you fly in the vicinity of enemy aircraft or ground vehicles.  I'm not sure why, exactly.  Manual trim can be important for other reasons as well.

The top center button, under the stupid shield, is mapped to toggle the Auto Combat Trim on/off.  I leave the shield up all the time.

Top right button "A" is for WEP.

Bottom blue button "B" is for "Range Vox".

Big black button on left "C" is for 'Channel Vox".

On the base of the stick-

T1- Toggle Damage list

T2- Toggle tailhook (not important right away, lol, but at some point you will likely have an opportunity to attempt a landing).

T3- Toggles the secondary weapon selection.

T5- I use for toggling "Film" on and off.

My set-up is admittedly tailored to fighters, as that is really all I do.  The basics will work for anyone though.  The mappings required for bombing etc, are not as critical, as you will be able to let go of the throttle or joystick and/or look away from the screen to toggle what you need.  You will generally have plenty of time for that.

However, letting go of the joystick or throttle, or looking away from the screen will be the end of the fight for you in a fighter vs fighter scenario.  You need the key view and flight functions available at your fingertips, and intuitive for good results in combat.  

MtnMan

[liqermixr]

Hey Mtnman,
thanks for all that info it sounds like some of those things i will need to taylor to my individual needs, what is combat trim? and how does that work?
also when you set up your ruddr and stick it gives you 2 different options, i think i have those set up wrong. should my L aleron go down and my R go up when i move the stick left? and visa versa?

[Schatzi]

Originally posted by liqermixr
Hey Mtnman,
thanks for all that info it sounds like some of those things i will need to taylor to my individual needs, what is combat trim? and how does that work?
also when you set up your ruddr and stick it gives you 2 different options, i think i have those set up wrong. should my L aleron go down and my R go up when i move the stick left? and visa versa?

Yes, that is correct. left ailerone down/right up will roll your plane to the left - left stick input is the least confusing for that .

Im not exactly shure what "options" you talk about for setting up rudder/roll. The respective axis on your Joystick simply gets mapped to the analog input in Aces High... you can reverse axis if you prefer that for some.


X Axis - Analog input Roll (Aileron)
Y Axis - Analog input Pitch (Elevator)
Z Axis - Analog input Throttle1
Z Rotation - Analog input Yaw (Rudder)

The other axis/rotaries are the sliders and rotary buttons.... if you want to, you can map those to Trim functions or any other analog input.

If youre in doubt about wich axis is which - move it on your Joystick: The numbers in the respective brackets (on the list) will change.

More detailed help here: http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/controllers/controllers.htm




Trim: http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/trim/trim.htm
I recommend you just use autotrim for the time being (combat trim) - it will automatically trim your plane level at all times. While it has some slight problems on the very edge of the envelope (very slow or very fast, use of flaps etc) those are pretty minor - you have other things to worry about that will have a lot more impact on your fighting abilities then Trim.

[FLS]

Originally posted by Traveler
The reason the aircraft has a left turning tendency is due to several factors affecting the aircraft.  Will only discuss two here.

1).  An aircraft with a standard undercarriage, that’s two main wheels and a tail wheel, was and still is called the standard configuration.  The  propeller itself is in an extremely  high angle of attack (AOA).  The result is that the prop develops more thrust on the blades downward stroke, which is on the right side of the aircraft (as the pilots sees it from the pilots seat)  As you apply power you will need to apply right rudder to compensate for the induced left turning tendency.

2). Gyroscopic precession,  That’s pure physics.  The propeller which is a spinning mass with the same properties as a gyro.  Any force applied to a gyro is transposed 90*  to the direction that the force was applied from.  Compensated again by ruder and aileron.  Aircraft designers also use wash in and wash out of the wing and tail services.

As the aircraft accelerates down the runway use the rudder to maintain the center of the runway.  Apply power slowly at first.   As the aircraft reaches flying speed, the need for rudder will become less ( because the higher airspeed gives you a more effective rudder)  As the aircraft reaches flying speed the wing becomes more effective and helps offset Gyroscopic precession.  During the takeoff roll when you are able to move the stike forward to raise the tail . you decrease the high AOA and your need for right rudder is less.

Hope this helps
CFII

P.S. try flying a P38. less of a problem because it’s not a standard undercarriage.

Traveler P-factor is modeled but the turning effect is minor.

Gyroscopic Precession is modeled but it's only noticeable with pitch changes so it's a factor on the takeoff roll momentarily when the tail comes up and again on rotation when you pull the nose up.

What liqermixr is describing is caused by helical propwash.

[mtnman]

Schatzi and Liqermixr, you have your aileron inputs reversed.  Left stick makes the left aileron go up, and the right aileron go down.  Opposite for right stick.  The aileron that goes up, causes that wing to drop.

I also am confused by the options you mention for rudder.  I use rudder pedals, so I map them differently than you will if you are going to use the twist feature.

I agree with Schatzi that it is best to use Auto Combat trim, at least at first.  I use it for all my "normal" flying, but don't like the trim inputs it gives me during some flight manuevers.  I would recommend you keep the Auto Combat Trim enabled though.

Since you asked-

Auto Combat Trim basically trims your plane for you (fine tunes the trim tabs on the ailerons, elevators, and rudder.  It makes adjustments as you fly, so that the plane will fly smoothly in the direction you point it.  It more or less makes it so the plane will continue on the path you point it.  In a real airplane, you would need to manually do that.  As speed increases, the nose of the plane may pitch upward a bit, requiring more down pressure on the stick.  To fight that, the elevator is trimmed downward a little.  In AH, the Auto trim takes care of that for you.  In a flight sim, you can't "feel" what's going on, so the computer helps a bit.

The Auto trim works best in the "average" range of speeds and angles of flight.  It doesn't work as well at very high speed, very low speed, or when you have flaps or gear down, or throttle way down.  So I use manual trim at those times, as well as during some ACM's.

I would also recommend you visit the Training Arena for some help with the basics, and check out this site-  http://www.netaces.org

[Schatzi]

Originally posted by mtnman
Schatzi and Liqermixr, you have your aileron inputs reversed.  Left stick makes the left aileron go up, and the right aileron go down.  Opposite for right stick.  The aileron that goes up, causes that wing to drop.

Doh! Can i blame that on being female and left-right weakness?

[liqermixr]

I understand now that i had  my axis reversed, that is what cuased me to grash on take off. I was wondering why this was so much different than caombat sim but its really not that different. I still am having problems getting off of the ground by myself but i now can fly with auto take off and take control fo the plane now that I have fixed that axis problem. I was able to get my first kill this morning in offline mode but managed to run out of ammo and then crashed and burned when i tried to land. I think take off here is just more sensative than in the combat sim and it becomes a touch issue. Im sure i will aventually get up in the air on my own if i keep trying.
I also understand that the rotation of a prop will cuase the plane to veer off hence the need for rudder use. Im working on my (touch) there also.
When flying do you use the flaps up & down or is that just for take off and landings? CAn i use my flaps down to control myself better in the air as im am rolling into a dive to gain position on my target?
Thanks again everybody for the help,

[FLS]

Extending flaps lowers your stall speed. It also increases drag which is good if you want to slow down. Flaps are useful for slow speed maneuvers like takeoffs, landings, and stall fighting where you turn at the edge of stalling.  Flaps should be retracted to reduce drag as soon as practicable after extending them.

[Schatzi]

liqermixr, if you have problems with rudder inpout, try scaling it a little bit down. Also, if you get unvoluntary input easily (happens often with twisty rudder), add a little more deadband to increase the dead center zone.


Practice takeoffs and landings, as they teach you both rudder input and plane handling at lower speeds. Another very good (and fun thing) to do is fly aerobatics around the bases, flying through hangars etc.

Try a Spitfire Mk8 or Mk9 or an F6F (needs flap use) for starters... they all have good overall performance and pretty forgiving handling. Take low fuel loads at first, as a lighter plane is easier to fly.


Flap use: Very much depends on the plane id say. In some you do not neccessarily need them for fighting, in some youll be completely lost without. The Spitfires, Hurricanes being in the former category, planes like F6F, P51 or P38 in the latter. It also depends on which plane youre fighting. In a Spitfire against a 190 ill probably never have the need to drop flaps... against a Hurricane ill almost surely have them down at times.

Generally: Flaps will increase the lift to your wings. But they also add a lot of drag. Thus, they will enable you to turn smaller radius (instant turn rate), but they will also cost you Energy and decrease accelleration and sustained turn rate. As a rule of thumb: Drop the flaps when you need the immediate gain of angles and raise them again as soon as possible.


Heres a great article from Andy Bush about Flaps - what they do and when to use them. On the last page of the writeup, he gives some general "rules" on Flaps usage.

Joystick settings..... I know people ask again and again, what the good sticks have as settings and use them for themselves. While this gives you an idea what to do, settings depend so much on your stick brand, how worn out it is, your personal preferences.... Ill try to explain the basics of the settings to you, maybe giving you the possibility to find your own, personal "favorite stick settings".
 
First of all, youll have to set the settings sliders, as well as deadband and damping for each axis seperatly. Select the axis you want to work on and then check the ADVANCED box. Make sure the advanced tab shows the axis you are adjusting in the upper left corner.
 
What you also should know about scaling: It will NOT affect your overall range of motion… it will only add time delay to the movements, smoothen them out thus. You can watch the lines in the blue box move – raw (unscaled) and scaled… 45% stick deflection will still be 45% input – but the time it takes to get there is different.

Deadband: This is the easiest of all. As little as possible - as much as neccessary. Deadband depicts the “dead area” around the center position of the stick, where movement is not recognised as input yet. If you have your Joystick spiking, if you notice autopilot being thrown off without you moving the stick, youll need to raise it.
Also, if you use a Twisty Rudder, you might want to add some dead band on that axis to avoid unintentional input in the heat of a fight.
 
Damping: This adds an overall 'sluggishness' to your JS inputs, like a small temporal delay added to the reaction to stick input. Depending, if you have a rather light hand on your stick youll probably want this to be as low as possible (I got mine all at the way down, about ½ slider width from the bottom). If you feel your input is too touchy overall, raise this slider.
Also, if you get a “don’t move your controls so rapidly” a lot: Try recalibrating your stick – if this doesn’t help, adding some damping sometimes does.
 
 Now to the Individual Sliders to the right. Those "scale" your stick input. Meaning, the time delay added to the input is only on part of the motion range (in 10% of the motion range for each, since you have ten sliders). The higher the sliders are, the more immediate is the input. This makes for a very fine control, but also a skitterish one and maybe (some planes more, some less) an unstable nose (“nose bounce”). All the way down makes for a very smooth, but also sluggish response.

 
I dont know your preferences. If you prefer to have a very fine control that needs a light hand and might be a little touchy, i recommend you start out with all sliders maxed out at the top. Then adjust from there, lowering the first few in a staircase way to soften any heavy nose bounce you might encounter. For Elevator, I have the first four sliders stair-cased, starting about half an inch from top. For rudder I have the first and the last 3 slightly lowered (also staircase), since I was using a rocker rudder with a small range of motion – also added 1/2 inch of damping on that. Roll axis is all maxed out, since it doesn’t come into play with nose bounce. (ill attach screenies from my old stick setup)
 
If you dont like your controls that touchy (or if your joystick doesnt "allow" this minute input - ie you just keep stalling all over the place) I recommend you start out from a staircase (first slider 1/3 – 1/2 down).
Like AKAK shows in his stick settings http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/stickscale.zip (the zip also contains great info on gunnery and energy)
 
I hope this rather long winded explanations makes sense to you and helps you finding your own settings. Maybe you also want to check out the explanation for stick settings at netaces, heres the link: http://www.netaces.org//joystick.pdf