Author Topic: Libertarians (Read 1615 times)

VVV · « **Reply #45 on:** February 04, 2007, 01:42:19 AM »

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Originally posted by AWMac

10. There is no Separation from Church and State. You don't like it? Leave.

Mac

I find this, well for me anyway, quite odd.
I believe Religion* should be left out of state due to some of the views and extremes** some religions take on. One of the foundations of this country was the seperation of church of state and to change that might bring down the whole structure.

*I have nothing against Religion.
** Not all Religions have extremes

Other wise I find some of your other views to be on par with mine.

My Regards

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #46 on:** February 04, 2007, 02:16:57 AM »

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2: 2. Total ellimination of Corporate outsourcing..If you depend upon 3rd World Countries to do American work then you move to that dam Country...yer not American.

*You have to be kidding me! You actually belive outsourcing is in the best means for Americans?

Outsourcing keeps costs low for the company and for you. The benefit of having a few people with jobs is far outweighed by the benefit of the product costing less for everyone.

Not to mention how the United States industry is switching from a manufacturing industry to a service industry. This happens as a country gets healthier and more technologically advanced. To hang on to the manufacturing when it is not cost effective is just foolish.

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4: 4. American Education. College is open to all. No tuitions. If you make the grade you made it!

*Are you saying that the American youth with good grades are not entitled to a higher education? This is our Future. Are you so Blind?

No one is entitled to anything, least of all those who will not earn it.

Those with good grades can get through on scholarships and minimal up front cash. But for the 95% of the college world who do not get amazing grades (I am one of them), the education is not given to them. They need to earn it by working hard and having student loans.

By making a college education available to all you remove the competitive aspect of it. Colleges compete for your money by hiring the best professors they can and turning out the best graduates. If everyone gets into college, then they don't have to even bother hiring good professors for good money. Any par level professor will do, and suddenly they are hiring the cheapest professors they can find. And then everyone suffers.

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5: 5. We are no longer the Worlds police force. Collect the funds due to the USA from Germany, France and everyone else and pay back to China. There is no longer a Favorite trade Nation. You want to trade with us it's straight across the board!

*I guess you've never really looked at this. Just running yer gums. Research it and open your eyes. It's shocking. Even for PeaHeads.

Tariff free investments into and out of the United States is good for us. Based off of the cycle of the current economy (down swing, up swing) investments directly benefit all people in the US. Summed up, in a recession investment into the US is good for us, while in a high period investment out is good for us.

That's not even taking into account the fascistic nature of telling someone or a corporation what they can or can't do with their money.

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8: 8. We rebuild America. Starting with the Farmers, Teachers, Firemen and the Police.

*This would weaken America? Ask each and every Farmer that has struggled to feed America. Ask every Teacher that has taught America. Ask every Fireman, Policeman that has saved and protected America. They need to be paid more than what they receive now.

Subsidizing anything just prolongs that industry's eventual collapse. For example, take the Farmers. By subsidizing them you are paying them for being in a bad business. They made a bad business decision, and instead of paying for it like the real world should, the government pays them money to sustain their state. Where they should fail and allow new developments to arise and take their place for the benefit of all, the government gives them OUR money so that they don't fail.

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10: 10. In GOD We Trust is just that! It's Christmas... NOT Xmas, NOT Seasons Greetings.... There is no Seperation from Church and State. You don't like it? Leave.

*Is there something you missed in this?

The state can't pick a religion to support. This is very evident in the constitution. However, I am not against the abolishment of all things even remotely religious about our world.

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11. 11. All Medical and Dental are paid from the Goverment. Gotta look good and feel good. This is America.

*This will truly ruin America... what was I thinking.

Again, it's the same thing as the colleges. The best colleges and the best doctors got that way in order to be the most desired option for your money. By making all medical and dental fees paid for, it takes out the competition for your money. Because of this, medical clinics will stop hiring the best doctors, and start hiring the cheapest. Everyone pays from this lack of quality.

Of course, this is forgetting for each one, who will pay for it?

-Laser signing off for the night with a +8 handicap.

AWMac · « **Reply #47 on:** February 04, 2007, 03:40:41 AM »

Lasersailor, Now take your time to read exactly what I wrote and what you wrote... take your spin out of it and you'll see how foolish you are.

VVV the Seperation between Church and State is not and was not written into the Constitution as some would have you believe. It's actually was a letter written by Jefferson to the Baptists Ministers refusing to officially back the Baptist Religion above the others.

May I suggest that you go a Google on Jeffersons Letter and open another screen and Google the Consitution. Compare them both. It will make interesting reading.

Mac

AWMac · « **Reply #48 on:** February 04, 2007, 04:34:56 AM »

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Originally posted by lasersailor184

Those with good grades can get through on scholarships and minimal up front cash. But for the 95% of the college world who do not get amazing grades (I am one of them), the education is not given to them. They need to earn it by working hard and having student loans.

By making a college education available to all you remove the competitive aspect of it. Colleges compete for your money by hiring the best professors they can and turning out the best graduates. If everyone gets into college, then they don't have to even bother hiring good professors for good money. Any par level professor will do, and suddenly they are hiring the cheapest professors they can find. And then everyone suffers.

http://nobelprize.org/nomination/peace/nominators.html

#3:
3. University rectors; professors of social sciences, history, philosophy, law and theology; directors of peace research institutes and foreign policy institutes;

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Quoted by lazersailor184 in a previous thread:
Flatbar. #3 on the list encompasses A LOT of people that can nominate someone.
I tried to nominate my friend 2 years back for schnitzengiggles. I could have done it, as the dean of my college was willing to do it as well.

You seem to be a bit Hypocritical...The way I see it now is you fear that someone "Making the Grade" will get into College and pass you by...without having Daddy foot the tab.

Please get yer rant / rave together before you attack me. BTW I have two Daughters older than you that have full scholorships into College. And a Son that is truly remarkable.

One Daughter is in Baylor Medical College after she turned down USMA.
The other Daughter in OU.
My Son is favoritably looking at MIT.

Wanna know how they did that? They Studied hard. Honors.

I'm a Graduate of the Univ of Maryland.
BS Computer Science
BA Theology / Asian Studies

And the College you attend is.......?

But for the 95% of the college world who do not get amazing grades (I am one of them), the education is not given to them.

May I suggest that you try one thing... STUDY

America should not foot bills for fools. Hence "You make the Grade yer in!"

Pfft a Fool and His Money/Education are soon parted....

Best wishes to you in your future endeavors,

Mac

Masherbrum · « **Reply #49 on:** February 04, 2007, 09:08:45 AM »

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Originally posted by Stringer
Use your intimidating voice.....that should do it.

lazs2 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 04, 2007, 10:18:47 AM »

takeda... I would not need to accept a liver from any government hack medical plan... I have my own insurance.. How can we manage to drive cars without government insurance? Why are you such a drama queen about it?

awmac.. your programs are a mix of freedom and the supression of fredom by socialist ideas... I would not vote for you because.... much as I like to see a good nativity scene now and then... it is not worth your destroying my ability to choose my own health care.

I don't know what "corporate welfare" is any more than the rest of you... if it is subsidies in the form of tax breaks then it is great... any time anyone gets a tax break that is good for the rest of us.

outsourcing? none of my business.

Like storch tho.. I will throw away my vote by voting libertarian only if there is no chance that a democrat will get in because of it... I will also vote for the libertarian if the democrat leads by a huge insurmountable percentage.

Sadly.. that is all we are left with in this country is voting against the greater evil... the women socialist democrats are simply the, by a huge margin, biggest evil.

If they stay out of power we may have another few decades breathing room.

lazs

Hap · « **Reply #51 on:** February 04, 2007, 10:40:33 AM »

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Originally posted by lasersailor184
http://www.kubby2008.com/node/22

Like I said before, I never understood why Ayn Rand so fervently hated the libertarians. Now I do.

Anyway Mac, it's not that fact that you are trying to save america, it's the fact that most of the things you have listed would hurt america.

Ayn Rand's vision is of the world is evil, wrong, and cruel.

Mac, I agree with much of what you posted as your "platfrom." I'm ignorant when it comes to the Libertarian Party.

Good thread. I'll see what's what.

The most incisive, revoloutionary, and wonderful social/political treatise I've ever read is this : ------> http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html

All the Best,

hap

AWMac · « **Reply #52 on:** February 04, 2007, 10:46:18 AM »

Lazs2 I see the Freedom but please point out the supression of Freedom by socialist ideas.

I need your input and that of others to provide a well balanced, across the board, and acceptable path in restoring America.

For the People and By the People...

Thanks,

Mac '08

lazs2 · « **Reply #53 on:** February 04, 2007, 10:54:57 AM »

mac... how are you going to pay for your medical programs? Any new taxes are an infringement of my freedom and... they make the government more powerful... you don't pretend to make the government anything but more intrusive in my life.

hap... I am glad that you admit that socialist ideals are your ideals. I am glad you admit that individulals are evil in your mind. your example is of the catholic church... that is indeed a socialist entity and... far more cruel than anything that might result from Ayn Rands ideas.

lazs

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #54 on:** February 04, 2007, 12:04:39 PM »

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You seem to be a bit Hypocritical...The way I see it now is you fear that someone "Making the Grade" will get into College and pass you by...without having Daddy foot the tab.

You really seem to harp on anyone who has a father who worked hard to be able to pay for their kid's. That makes me think that YOU actually fear it, that someone already has the bill paid for will do better then your kids will. Or maybe buy their grades unlike what you are doing.

And it's a good fear. You want to look out for your kids and how well they studied.

You have some pretty good schools there. But after your programs they would not be so good for the reasons listed. If you did what you want to do, all schools will lose their reputation, especially good ones.

As for me, I don't know why you keep insisting that "daddy foots the tab." It's just not true. And while I don't make the best grades, I do work my bellybutton off in the hardest major at Penn State.

I am fully aware that jefferson penned the term Seperation of Church and state. However, the constitution does read:

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Which is exactly what I said.

VVV · « **Reply #55 on:** February 04, 2007, 02:30:07 PM »

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Originally posted by AWMac
VVV the Seperation between Church and State is not and was not written into the Constitution as some would have you believe. It's actually was a letter written by Jefferson to the Baptists Ministers refusing to officially back the Baptist Religion above the others.

May I suggest that you go a Google on Jeffersons Letter and open another screen and Google the Consitution. Compare them both. It will make interesting reading.

Mac

I didn't know that. I will compare those.
Thank you for the information sir.

Sincraft · « **Reply #56 on:** February 04, 2007, 05:49:02 PM »

Liberals are uneducated. They eat their cake, then sue because they get fat.

The educated liberals I fear the most. The ARE the squeaky wheel.

We live in a degraded society that thrives on the 'drama' factor. Anyone that squeaks the loudest, seems to get the attention they want.

The bottom line is, I'll be whatever I believe in. Liberal if all other options are exhausted and I disagree with my party lines completely.

The bad thing is also, that democrats are being associated with liberals. Please do not automatically do this as there are some really dedicated democrats that are both fearful enough to be vigilant toward our safety and the well being of our economy.

The thing I fear the most is that, no one has a plan other than what we are involved in now, yet the current administration is bashed constantly by the whinny 30 something news media idiots that couldn't tell Jay Leno where the capitol of the United States was if their life depended on it.

Democrats like hillary "I will beat you down with my shrill voice" Clinton, are already on this path of do nothing but say "I wouldn't have gotten us into this" and "if I were in office our economy would be great".

SO where do we stand? Hopefully the typical educated American will tell some of these liberals to stfu and take notice as to the degradation our society is becoming, and work toward a better future.

I leave you with a ' famous ' line from the movie sev7n.
People don't want to worry..... "They just want to eat cheeseburgers and watch tv"

We are (at least those of us that work hard each day for a living) ALL tired. But we have to make a stand and start being vocal also. Otherwise, the world is doomed to political correctness hell. Where the libs will worry more about a non existent global warming crisis than the crisis inside our borders with dissidents and those that would have our lives faster than we can say "lets talk about things".

Saintaw · « **Reply #57 on:** February 05, 2007, 03:02:22 AM »

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Originally posted by AWMac
blahrgh***

Aren't you supposed to put the horse down when it's chaffin'like this?

Debonair · « **Reply #58 on:** February 05, 2007, 03:14:21 AM »

OMFG CHEESEBURGERS [SIZE=9]OWN!!!![/SIZE]!111:aok

VVV · « **Reply #59 on:** February 05, 2007, 07:31:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sincraft
Liberals are uneducated. They eat their cake, then sue because they get fat.

The educated liberals I fear the most. The ARE the squeaky wheel.

We live in a degraded society that thrives on the 'drama' factor. Anyone that squeaks the loudest, seems to get the attention they want.

The bottom line is, I'll be whatever I believe in. Liberal if all other options are exhausted and I disagree with my party lines completely.

The bad thing is also, that democrats are being associated with liberals. Please do not automatically do this as there are some really dedicated democrats that are both fearful enough to be vigilant toward our safety and the well being of our economy.

The thing I fear the most is that, no one has a plan other than what we are involved in now, yet the current administration is bashed constantly by the whinny 30 something news media idiots that couldn't tell Jay Leno where the capitol of the United States was if their life depended on it.

Democrats like hillary "I will beat you down with my shrill voice" Clinton, are already on this path of do nothing but say "I wouldn't have gotten us into this" and "if I were in office our economy would be great".

SO where do we stand? Hopefully the typical educated American will tell some of these liberals to stfu and take notice as to the degradation our society is becoming, and work toward a better future.

I leave you with a ' famous ' line from the movie sev7n.
People don't want to worry..... "They just want to eat cheeseburgers and watch tv"

We are (at least those of us that work hard each day for a living) ALL tired. But we have to make a stand and start being vocal also. Otherwise, the world is doomed to political correctness hell. Where the libs will worry more about a non existent global warming crisis than the crisis inside our borders with dissidents and those that would have our lives faster than we can say "lets talk about things".

Good post, but I thought this thread was about Libertarians?

Libertarians take on different views then Liberals.