Spit 16

[loony1]

something needs to be done about the spit 16 it is totally over modeled

turns inside a zero
speed of a tempest


i find it hard to believe that this is accurate...i don't know how many times i have came across a spit 16 and no mater what i am in he can almost always out turn me or out run me and i know its not just me, so i don't need any flames on my flying skills. I am not the only one who can attest to this. Please check and fix the modeling problem

[AKDogg]

I have no problem with spit16

My hog is faster and can turn inside a spit16 all day long

[Simaril]

Looney :

No flaming intended.

But the SPit XVI is not the problem. The XVI cannot outrun a tempest GIVEN EQUAL ENERGY AT THE START. Likewise, it cannot outturn a zero at low speed with equal energy.

The Spit XVI is very good at acceleration, very good at climbing. it tunrs well (though not as well as the VIII, or the zero for that matter), and it rolls well.  It will outaccelerate the tempest at low speed, but the tempest wins when accelerating from a faster speed. The Spit XVi on the deck is more than 50mph slower than the tempest, and its turn diameter is AT LEAST 100 feet larger than the zeros at every single flap setting.

Those are the facts.

If you can't beat the thing, then you are probably playing it's game. Don't play to the strengths of your enemy, and you will do much better! I am far from an ace pilot, but spits XVIs don't worry me unless I've made the mistake of giving them the advantage they'd want to begin with.
 

I read your post to say that if you're caught low and slow, you cant so much against them. Yeah, that's proabbly true -- because they will either outpower (like against a zero) or outturn (that tempest -- its not outrunning it, its out ACCELERATING you). Remember that climb and acceleration -- it's honestly the thing I worry about most.

So if you're in spitfire zone, dont let yourself get slow enough that the spit's acceleration would pose a problem.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by loony1
something needs to be done about the spit 16 it is totally over modeled

turns inside a zero
speed of a tempest
 

Speed of a tempest??? Do you actually play this game????

(BTW, wrong forum )

[loony1]

yea doh....sorry bout the wrong forum...ment to be in bug report

anyway here is a scenario for ya..

I'm in a seafire and run into a spit 16 we wind up with a few split Ss then into the turn we go....flaps out.....pulling hard back and he turns inside me and kills me....Happens all the time and has happen in a zero to me also.


next one....i'm in a tempest at 8000ft....i spot a spit 1k above me...he rolls over and starts a dive to get on my 6. I avoid the pass and cause the overshoot and Wep on and  dive hard to the deck...the spit 16 turns hard and dives after me...wooosh...her he comes on my 6 fast as lightning and shoots me down. Now 1. i would sure think he would lose allot of E in the hard turn and 2. I would think the temp should get E up much faster with wep on and almost no E loss and diving hard

[nickf620]

spit 16 has better acceleration also given his speed gained in the dive he was able to get on your 6

[Shamus]

Grab a ki84, get him under 200 low, then he's toast:)

shamus

[Oleg]

Originally posted by loony1
I'm in a seafire and run into a spit 16 we wind up with a few split Ss then into the turn we go....flaps out.....pulling hard back and he turns inside me and kills me....Happens all the time and has happen in a zero to me also.

If you cannt outturn Spit16 in Seafire you have BIG problems

[Simaril]

I'd seriously bet that the spit XVI used the vertical to get inside your turn -- a co-e yoyo beats a flat turn every single time.

Film these, and you'll likely see the reason they happen...energy (speed^2 * alt) and tactics probably explain both your scenarios.

[Knegel]

Hi,

i have to agree to two strange things happen with the 16.

1. In oposide to all other heavyer wingloaded planes, the 16 with its clipped wings(smaler wingarea) keep more energy than the normal winged Spits.

2. The 16 have a even more smooth stall behaviour than the normal winged Spits.


To 1. this is absolut ok, so there is nothing strange, its rather strange this behaviour dont count for even more heavy wingloaded planes!!  A FW190A8 or a P38(no flaps) bleed energy like mad while the smothest turn.  That the 16 dont bleed energy like mad  simply dont fit into this line!

To 2.

The 16 should lose much of the typical Spit turnperformence at slow speed, but specialy it should tend to be very unstable.

The CW spit had a VERY smal aspectratio, with this and the missing washout effect, it should be much more dangerus(if i remember right thats what the pilots was complaining).

btw, the good slowspeed acceleration of the 16 is related to a horizontal flight and climb, while a dive the relation should shift much toward the planes with a better drag/load.  

And of course a F4U-4 can do all better than the 16, due to its magical flaps.

All over the 16 is far less overmodeled than the F4U´s(due to the magical flaps), the La7 and HurriIIc.

Another btw.  a much more tight turning 16(than a Seafire), can be related to a different fuelload.

I would like to see that the E-bleed get more credible all over.  Heavy wingloaded planes should keep energy like mad while highspeed manouvers and i hate the magical flaps, which particular help to overcome the high e-bleed in some heavy planes.

Greetings,

Knegel

[BaldEagl]

The Spit XVI absolutely will not turn inside a Zeke or a Seafire.  If that's consitantly true for you then it sounds like you've got the stall limiter enbled.

I flew a Spit XVI last night alongside a squad mate in a Typhoon.  I was faster climbing and in level flight but in a dive we were'nt even close.  He zoomed away from me like i was standing still.  I'd guess the Temp would be even faster than the Typh.

[Major Biggles]

sounds like you were killed by a better opponent loony


as for the spit16 having easy stall behaviour, that's not true, it's very twitchy. it's purely because of the powerful engine and climbrate that it can hang on the prop like it does, which gives the appearance of easy stall handling.

infact, the spit16 is undermodelled, or atleast, it uses a lower power setting than normal. our spit gets 18 pounds of boost at wep, when at the height of it's service it could attain 21 normally, or be pushed to 25 pounds. thank your lucky stars we don't have a 25 lb spit16, the thing climbed at near 6000ft/min and was far faster than our model

[MiloMorai]

The Merlin Spits had 18lb boost with 100/130 fuel and 25lb boost with 100/150 fuel.

The RR engine that used 21lb boost was the Griffon.

More like 5000f/m Major.  http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-IX.html

[Major Biggles]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
The Merlin Spits had 18lb boost with 100/130 fuel and 25lb boost with 100/150 fuel.

The RR engine that used 21lb boost was the Griffon.

More like 5000f/m Major.  http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-IX.html

ah rgr, thanks milo.

currently our spit does about 4600 ft/min but at 25 boost it was supposed to be 5700 ft/min wasn't it?

[Major Biggles]

your site states that a spit9 at 25 boost would achieve 5740 ft/min on a merlin 66. i'd say that's pretty much what the 16 would do, if not slightly better


so roughly 6000ft/min was correct

but thanks for clearing up the boost settings issue