Global Warming SOLAR-made not MAN-made

[lazs2]

And that really is about the last hurrah for the socialist greenies... they are having a purse fight as we speak.

The sensible ones realize that they have been used and then sold down the co2 river in order to get to a goal of making a lot of money and expanding government.   The fervent ones who self flagulate and wear hair shirts KNOW that somehow... somehow.. man is guilty of something greater than killing a stream here and there... that we are all powerful in our evil.

Now.. every day... less and less people are buying into the whole co2 scam and the punitive taxation and large government and yes... the expensive grants.

The only hope left is that it doesn't cool down toooooooo much in the next few years and they get democrats in power... democrats don't care about it except for the chance to expand government and CONTROL.

mister fork is right in a lot of ways... pollution is bad..  co2 is not pollution.. you can't even make beer without producing it....  He does make the mistake of thinking that just because the models can't predict what will happen in a week or... in a year... or.. in two years... that.. somehow.. they are still accurate for 50 or a 100 years down the road.

The point is... they can't predict next year cause... they always miss some aspect... some variable nature throws at em...  How in the hell many do you think they will miss in a 100 year prediction?  

he was right that 100 years ago we probly couldn't get any real observed temps that were accurate in a global way for more than a +/-  two to 4 degrees... we still can't truth be told... our weather stations are a joke  sitting on concrete by diesel exhaust.

lazs

[Sabre]

Here's an article about a proposed bill to "curb" CO2 emissions.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299419,00.html

It'll only cost a couple trillion dollars, shrink the economy by 5.2 percent over 10 years, and cost the average American family $10,800 a year in lost income; but hey...it will reduce the predicted temperature rise between now and 2095 by 0.13 percent:huh .  Plus, a select group of folks will be able to take lots of money from others (carbon trading credits) without having to lift a finger.  Sounds great, eh?

[Louis XVII]

Originally posted by Jackal1
The earth has been in a constant state of change and will continue to do so. That you can bank on. I would rather more energy and thought be put into something that would actualy make a difference without fleecing the people in a scam.

What, the earth is just going to magically sort itself out from the mess it's in now? Sorry, but that sounds like some kind of "God will deliver" blind faith one might expect from the bible belt. Where do you live? Oh wait...

And... why should the exploration of new forms of energy be a "scam"? Or do you have vested interests in the oil industry? Now then, where is the hub of the US oil industry... oh wait. I shouldn't have asked!

The sensible ones realize that they have been used and then sold down the co2 river in order to get to a goal of making a lot of money and expanding government. The only hope left is that it doesn't cool down toooooooo much in the next few years and they get democrats in power... democrats don't care about it except for the chance to expand government and CONTROL.

Well that's a lucid response about the US government and political system. : There's just one small point that needs to be understood. Climate change is NOT a "US problem".

[Louis XVII]

Originally posted by Sabre
It'll only cost a couple trillion dollars

Considering how much the US spends on foreign (OPEC) oil, it sounds like a good deal.

[Sabre]

Originally posted by Louis XVII
Considering how much the US spends on foreign (OPEC) oil, it sounds like a good deal.

The proposed bill won't do anything to stop that.  So it's trillions on top of[\i] what we spend on foreign energy.  How is that a good thing?  And remember, that doesn't even include the other economic impacts.

By the way, I'm absolutely for eliminating our dependence on foreign energy, for economic and security reasons.  The kind of legislation discussed in the article I linked to won't help with that.  Read the article, then go read the proposed legislation.

[Angus]

Originally posted by Jackal1
One of which man has no control enough to be significant. Good or bad.
As said the earth has always been in a constant state of change. Just because we consider ourself so important will not impress mother nature and her path.

This is where we 100% disagree.

Look into the total man impact and say we have no influence in the last 1000 years or so...

(BTW, I rather have the opinion that it's not just the co2, and even not too much compared to many other things)

[lazs2]

uh oh... even angus is deserting the co2 causes global warming scam now!

lazs

[Angus]

I have tended to call it human impact, and call it idiocy to clame that human impact as a whole for hundreds of years has no effect on global climate.
I have also been sceptic about this "co2 balancing" project.
You will find this in the threads.
However co2 does in increased measure function as a warming gas. It's just not much compared to methane with it's power.
And I have mentioned that, as far as I remember as a paralell to turning on a switch, - if human impact is enough to warm the globe to the level of the permafrost melting and releasing all it's methane, then you are going to see some really wild stuff happen. I leave it up to debate about whether it's going to be enough for a Venus scenario, but IMHO you'll be seeing a climate that you won't like.
So, - small doomsday or the real one. Wan't to take the chance?

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by lazs2
uh oh... even angus is deserting the co2 causes global warming scam now!

lazs

Yep. No choice. All of the chart makers and Doomsdayers are falling off like fleas off a dog`s back.
You just got to rearrange things around to keep the same cause. Doesn`t matter if it makes any sense or not. It`s a real pain to come up with a totaly new Doomsday scare.............and this one hasn`t used up it`s time slot as of now.
You can`t just sit around twiddling your thumbs and wait for the next circus act.

[Angus]

Well, IMHO it makes no sence to claim that ice melting faster than it builds does not have a relation to warming. That is nothing but a lack of realism.

Oh, and is there yet sense enough to fathom the logic about why the melting is faster than the buildup? None has answered to that challenge yet...

Anyway, logging off, and leaving for the Baltic.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
Well, IMHO it makes no sence to claim that ice melting faster than it builds does not have a relation to warming.  

Once again........ice has been known to melt.

Anyway, logging off, and leaving for the Baltic.

Stay safe.