Fifteenth AF - Northern Italy Frame 1 Scores

[AKDogg]

U still won the frame anyways by a large margin.  Why push it further?

[SkyGnome]

Originally posted by AKDogg
U still won the frame anyways by a large margin.  Why push it further?

Because if there is a problem with the setup/log parsing/etc, then it's nice to know what it is to avoid a repeat in a closer contest, would be one reason.

Edit:  ... though in this case, I'm not seeing a problem, except perhaps with the reporting of percentages on the clipboard.

[Hornet33]

Originally posted by AKDogg
U still won the frame anyways by a large margin.  Why push it further?

Because it's like getting a speeding ticket for doing 53 in a 55 zone. You wouldn't fight that if it happened to you?

There is something about this that doesn't make sense. How can the strat level show 100% destruction after we made our drop and then 20 minutes later there be something there for the fighters to hit?

It's not about getting more points for the Allied side, it's about figuring out what happened so it doesn't happen again to anyone else. If we left that many buildings up at the factory then why did the strat show 100% destruction? It shouldn't have. I've parked a GV inside a strat before and had to run around trying to find 1 building because the strat showed 1%. Friday night right after we dropped a bunch of people checked and it showed that we leveled the place 20 minutes before any Allied fighters showed up, so how where there still targets there when the fighters got there?

Too many people saw this happen for it to just go away without being investigated.

[REP0MAN]

I don't know if it helps but here is what I got.

The stats above are edited but they are mine.

REP0MANx
22:10:47 Departed from Field #35 in a P-38L
22:49:09 Takes on fuel/ammo/ord at field #34.
23:09:10 Helps TinmanX shoot down 68Austex.
23:22:27 Destroyed a field gun at city #01
23:22:27 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:27 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a field gun at city #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:23:37 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:23:37 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:23:37 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:23:37 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:24:34 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:24:34 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:25:00 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:26:15 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:43:38 Arrived Safely at Field #54


When I arrived at the Radar facility with two pilots under my command with me, there were parts of the facility standing. The times are concurrent with the bold times above. This is a screen shot taken immediately after dropping 1000lbs of ordinance on the train that was parked at the facility. I'm sorry for the smallness of the picture, you may have to D/L it to blow it up and see the remaining buildings.



I do not recall being told verbally NOT to use remaining ordinance on remaining targets at the facility. This is from our official orders received from Allied Command:

Unforgiven
Mission: Leave A34 and head direct to V-75 to cover the re-supply train into that base. Expect
action quick, no friendlies will be in that area so anything you see inbounds will be enemy for the
first hour. Altitude at your leader’s discretion, but beware their target is on the ground. You’re
released to free hunt at T+60 for any aircraft or trains at either primary target.

Field: A34
Plane: P-38L
Fuel: 100% internal
Ordinance: 500lbs drop on initial take off.
Rockets: 10 5” for attacks after the T+ 60
[/b]

In my error, I understood this as targets of opportunity at either primary target, including trains.

So, on behalf of The UNFORGIVEN FSO Command, I concede the points awarded for targets that were not assigned. Please accept our sincere apology and our word that it will not happen again.

P.S. That roaming P-38 that kilt all the renegades at A-33 was stolen from our hangars minutes after we took off. He must have know about the meeting and infiltrated our hangar, stealing one of our back ups and eliminating the secret meeting.

[HB555]

Hornet,
I too have, as you say:
 " .... parked a GV inside a strat before and had to run around trying to find 1 building because the strat showed 1%."

But last night, I was doing strat distruction in a 110 at a radar facility in MA Blue and after finding that last building, got a 0% on the clip board. As I turned to exit the area (feeling quite proud of my accomplishment) I noticed at least three more buildings had arisin from the ashes, as it were.
As I was very low ammo, I just headed for home, but again checked the CB, and to my surprise, it was still at zero. Upon landing, about a 7 minute flight, I again rechecked CB and it was still showing 0%.
Some 20 minutes later after another flight, I returned to the radar facility (still reading 0% on the clipboard) and noticed another 10 or 12 buildings had been rebuilt, in addition to the original 3. I took them down, looked the area over as closely as I could from 200 feet at 150 MPH, and saw nothing up. The Strat was still 0% and remained that way for over an hour.

Can this be a game wide fubar, techno glitch, or unplugged cord of which Mr. skuzzy should be apprised?

[Casper1]

howdy HB!  havent seen ya in a while!  (sorry 4 thread derailage)

[HB555]

Hi yas, Casper. Salute, ol' friend.
MA Blue, most nights. Rook side. Pop in and say howdy PM (but not low 6 )

Back to our regularly scheduled thread topic.....

[REP0MAN]

HB, what happened in the MA to you is the strats were resupplied and the buildings were coming back up. What Drone is saying is that the buildings weren't hit in the first place. To which, Valkyrie claims they were all down and re spawned. I think the discrepancy is: Did the initial bomber strike fail to get all the buildings or did they re spawn before I got there?

[Keeler101]

I called a cease fire because at the time we had 13 in the air and they had 50. There was no way it would have made a difference and I didn't see any further point in continuing

Another scoring adjustment was made to remove the 6 Axis pilots killed after the cease fire was called from the allied tallies.

I dont see how this is justified, If Axis command is crying uncle and thier pilots are ingauged

your absolutly right wax,i should have had my facts straight.i was a little busy with the 2 enemy in my cross hairs too do an accurate count.

Allies are penlized for axis breakdown

[HB555]

Mr. REPOMAN,
From our altitude, I could not honestly say I saw every building down, or any up for that matter, but the jubulation at seeing the 0% strat number was over whelming. We all just thought the 0% ment we got everything.
All I could see was what looked like one huge crater.
Wasn't trying to say one way or another, whats over is over, just passing along what I experienced from low alt with a decent eye on everything and thought there might be a coralation (corolation) (way they were tied together).  

[REP0MAN]

Oh, no implications of the intent of your reply. Just clarifying if there may have been some misunderstanding on your part. No worries sir I think this horse is dead.

[APDrone]

Well, I didn't say anything yesterday, as I wanted to reverify my film, but after our flight to bomb the fuel refinery ended, I entered CM Eye mode to observe the damage on the Radar facility. I got there right after the B17s had made their attack and parked over the target and continued filming.

The film revealed 12 visible buildings remaining ( the 13th may have been obscured ) and after about 20 minutes, 10 of those 12 buildings mysteriously converted into crater icons 1 and 2 at at time. ( the mode doesn't record the aircraft, I suppose )

So, if the clipboard strat report showed the Radar Factory at 0%, then the strat report was wrong.  I have yet to receive a screenshot making this claim.

If the clipboard strat report would have showed 15% active, the bombers probably would have planned a secondary attack.  The question is, would the fighter/bombers been advised not to attack due to that restriction?

Now, from my standpoint, if the clipboard map could have been proven that it displayed the Radar Factory at 0%, AND the remaining targets had not been illegally destroyed by the fighter/bombers, then I would have granted full destruction with the caveat that the clipboard strat reports can no longer be used as an accurate judge of target status for scoring purposes.

Final verdict: The target was not completely destroyed by the heavy bombers and 10 targets were improperly destroyed by ground attack aircraft.  My ruling stands.

I also present the caveat that the clipboard map strat report will not be recognized as a scoring tool, nor certified indicator for players to judge their actions upon.  

My personal opinion is that the clipboard strat map should not even be available for FSO.  It provides far more information than the crews had during the war.  If you want accurate damage assesment, you should send other aircraft to the target to get an observation. I guess the best compromise would be to make its reporting a setting that can be adjusted by the CM, like radar, killshooter, plane availability, and the like.

Good luck in frame 2!
<.S>

[FDutchmn]

Well... just regard the strat info as intelligence information which is not necessarily accurate.

Misinformation and spying is part of the war