Author Topic: Handicap for allies? (Read 787 times)

Zuum · « **on:** March 05, 2007, 05:12:56 PM »

This is gonna get wild...I wonder, what difference does it make to choose between cal.50 and 30mm Mk108 at all? From now on, I see no reason to choose the 30mm...That gun really seems to be totally ineffective against american bombers...

Take a look at this film and, please, count those hits on bombers with a 30mm Rheinmetall-Boersig. You gonna be surprised how tough those big birds seem to be...

Film is here:
http://www.rubricum.com/files/indestructable.ahf

So far, as I can count...I read at least 10 to 16 cannon hits at critical points in those bombers.

They caused just minor disturbing...or, hardly scratched them. As a matter of fact, they caused no real damage at all.

I never knew before, that americans made bombers out of titanium already at `40s...

IRL, the efficiency and power of MK108 was something else...please, take a look at this fact sheet:

MK108
http://www.luft46.com/armament/mk108.html

Comments are wellcome.

P.S. I have to point this discussion to another thread concerning same things:
Another discussion concerning the same oddity

Skuzzy & Hitech...I rely on the hope, You have some sort of good "tech-spec" explanation for this oddity. That is not just a question of "pings, delays, etc..etc...

Whisky58 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 05, 2007, 05:15:54 PM »

I've just had a disorientating attack of deja vu.

Zuum · « **Reply #2 on:** March 05, 2007, 05:17:25 PM »

I have just a feeling, that phenomena is a "deja-vu"...

hubsonfire · « **Reply #3 on:** March 05, 2007, 05:30:28 PM »

Maybe it's just you?

Guppy35 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 05, 2007, 05:31:47 PM »

How do you know they were cannon hits and not mg hits? From watching the films, you sure did a lot of damage. One of the 24s had two engines out and was missing a rudder as well as having 3 engines trailing smoke. The other bomber was trailing smoke as well.

On a couple of the passes it looked like you were hitting spots on the plane that wouldn't have neccesarily been critical hits, as in hits on the fuselage or mg hits on the trailing edge of the wings. Chances are you would have wounded or killed some crew, but it also might have just punched holes in the aluminum skin.

I think assuming those sparkles were all cannon hits might be part of the problem as your mgs were firing as well. And all the attacks were slashing attacks done quickly. What's the rate of fire on that nose cannon? How many rounds would have been fired.

I guess in the end I didn't see anything that makes me think HTC has done something wrong with the bombers. When I hit bombers I try and concentrate the fire on one wing or the other, sawing it off. Your fire was never concentrated on one particular point.

And as one who dies way too often to bomber gunners, I'm NOT a big buff fan

Zuum · « **Reply #5 on:** March 05, 2007, 05:45:43 PM »

BTW, when I am on my ride with 109K4....I don´t use mgs....I rely on cannons only.
All those hits are made with 30mm cannon.
And You can see that on film.
Those "sprites" are different between Mg´s and cannon.
Got it?

Guppy35 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2007, 06:08:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zuum
BTW, when I am on my ride with 109K4....I don´t use mgs....I rely on cannons only.
All those hits are made with 30mm cannon.
And You can see that on film.
Those "sprites" are different between Mg´s and cannon.
Got it?

LOL got it. Saw the MGs firing, or at least there was muzzle flash and flame coming from them.

Still doesn't change my feeling about it.

But since you are grumbling, lets look at it again.

Screenshots from your film. Pass 1. Sure looks like your MGs are firing with your cannon.

Still pass one. Only one hit sprite visible on the film. Rudder is flying off the drone and it's beginning to leak something.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2007, 06:13:25 PM »

Pass 2. 1 hit sprite visible on the film. Number 4 engine on the drone starts smoking.

Pass 3. By far the most damaging. 3 big hit sprites on the lead 24. One is right in front of the cockpit. Not neccesarily a fatal hit, although I'd guess the bombardier is dead. 2nd hit is right in the # 2 engine. it immediately starts throwing oil and quits. 3rd hit is right in front of the waist gunners. Again someone probably died or was wounded but not a vital hit.

Pass 4. 1 hit sprite. Number 4 engine on lead bomber. Again oil shows immediately and the engine shuts down. 2 engines now dead on lead bomber and rudder knocked off one side.

Pass 5. No hit sprites visible. Number 3 engine on lead bomber starts smoking but continues to run.

Pass 6. No hit sprites visible. Looks like you missed him completely on that pass and then you are hit by return fire.

BTW what I first thought were hit sprites on your last two passes turned out to be the sun glinting off the ball turret. It shows as a small bright spot on those passes from below.

Zuum · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2007, 06:30:19 PM »

Guppy...You go all wrong.
From the basics on...

Go to starting point.
;-)

pluck · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2007, 07:24:31 PM »

ah, just shoot the cockpit, problem solved:)

NoBaddy · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2007, 07:50:36 PM »

Corky...

I saw much the same as you. Lots of engine and fuselage hits. I did see a few on the main spare (who knows..another hit there might have broken a wing off). Over all, most of the hits weren't concentrated...they were from nose to tail and wing tip to wing tip.

Major Biggles · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2007, 08:05:42 PM »

oh god zuum not again...

you can't blame your cruddy shooting on HT rofl. make sure that there's nothing giving you rubber bullets, make sure vsync is turned on.

personally i often down any buff with at most 3 30mm hits. you just need to aim right. cockpit or just above and behind the cockpit on the top of the fuselage are one hit kills.

also, your angle and speed effect your damage. try making a fast high pass from high 6 o'clock and aim for the front of the fuselage. couple of hits and pop!

Meatwad · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2007, 08:06:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Whisky58
I've just had a disorientating attack of deja vu.

Good evening. Tonight on 'It's the Mind', we examine the phenomenon of déjà vu. That strange feeling we sometimes get that we've lived through something before, that what is happening now has already happened. Tonight on 'It's the Mind' we examine the phenomenon of déjà vu, that strange feeling we sometimes get that we've ... (looks puzzled fir a moment) Anyway, tonight on 'It's the Mind' we examine the phenomenon of déjà vu, that strange...

Sorry, I had to

quintv · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2007, 08:07:41 PM »

I don't have great gunnery but every fighter Ive hit with even a single round of 30mm had popped something off important like a tail unit or wing, bombers usually go down in one pass.

*shrug*

quintv · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2007, 08:18:27 PM »

lol of course right after I post this I hit a Typhoon's tail in a deflection shot while in my K4 firing only the MK108 and it didn't fall off, though I did get the kill for him when someone else finished him off.