Woh is Me; the Poor Reputation of the 39th P

[hubsonfire]

Well put with such economy of speech, Kweassa.

[moot]

Helm, everyone supports every single plane in the voting list.
The matter is which one they support most.

I don't think the P39 will suck. It will be my choice if the 410 doesn't make it, because I want a plane that's a challenge to fly, that has character, not another Spitfire Mk. MCXIV.  
The HurriD is another plane that's supposed to suck.. it turns at about 85-90% of the absolute AH scale, and will kill any plane with one salvo.
The FM2 and F4F are the same, and conversly, the Ta152 is supposed to be the late war LW dogfighting flagship.  It sucks, and yet look at its specs, and the things said about it:
"The Ta 152 was my life insurance in the last days of the war."

What deminishes the appeal of the 39 as the single plane addition for me is the amount of ammo.. I expected it would be a real dog and carry something like 50 or more of those 37mm.  Instead it will, while a different plane with a unique character, carry the same amount of ammo in its big gun, which means the only real dogfighting novelties left to choose from are the Yak3 and Me410.

It's not about reputation, or I wouldn't vote for the 410, which not only has the 210's reputation, but is also supposed to handle funky.
It's not about coming out against any new planes anyone else suggests.  I'll flog the life out of whatever fighter gets picked, and enjoy all of it.

[eskimo2]

The P-39Q was the most produced version; nearly half of Aircobras were Q’s.  I would think there’s a good chance this would be the one modeled.
The Q had 200 rounds per 50 cal. nose gun and had a 50 cal. in a pod on each wing with 300 rounds.  
That’s 1,000 50 cal. rounds and 30 - 37 mms.

Compared to the F-4F:
6 X 50 cal. 240 rounds per gun.
That’s 1,440 50 cal. rounds

So the Aircobra has about 2/3 the 50 cal. punch as a Wildcat, but it also has that “Hail Mary” 37 mm cannon.

[Squire]

The Russians took the pods off their P-39Qs.

I would like to see 2 basic models:

P-39D (standard USAAC model flown by the USA)
P-39D-1 (export version with 20mm used by the Russians)

Use the hanger to pick which cannon armament. You could make skins for it in Russian or USAAC markings.

P-39N

Used by the USAAF and the Russians, again, you could skin it with both USAAF and Russian markings.

[Ghastly]

I recall Jerry Collingsworth speaking at one of the Warbirds cons regarding the P39.  He said his almost killed him when it departed without warning as he was flying at 6000 ft, and that he regained control of it at the last possible second.  

He flat out had nothing whatsoever good to say about the airplane, and that they lost several good men during training to the "dog".

FWIW...

[FrodeMk3]

The Pitts is not recoverable from a flat spin. One went down in FL just a few years ago with a very experienced pilot from close to 10,000....he was radio all the way dwon trying to work thru it....

Not to hijack the thread, but...Are they sure it was'nt some kind of airframe or control failure, Humble? A pitts S-1 is a specialty aerobatic plane...I used to go to airshows up at Lemoore NAS, and you'd see 'em flat spin at 2,500 AGL, and seemingly recover at will.

[humble]

Suprised me to, I read the NTSB report........

I found this one and one other that appear to be flat spins as well. I was positive the one I was thinking of was in FL as well....

Pitts spin

Pitts

Pitts

Pitts

you can find a bunch of em....apaprently its easy to recover and easy to send into an inverted flat spin as well......

[BaldEagl]

I barely pulled a Tempest out of an inverted flat spin a couple of nights ago and you don't hear people in the arenas crying about them.  I got too slow going over the top at ~7-8K and by the time I got it to roll over and got the nose pointed down I almost hit the deck.

As to EW planes I regularily fly the F4F-4, Hurri I, Hurri IIC and Spit V in the LW arenas (don't remember if the P-51B qualifies as EW) and have flown the A6M2 and BF109 (early model... don't recall which it is) there as well (again I dont recall if the P-38G qualifies as EW).  Many of these will hold their own in the LWA's.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Saxman
Incidentally, the US DID produce a variant armed with a 20mm cannon in the prop hub. The P-400 was an export variant, and also represented the USAAF during the first few months of Guadalcanal.

IIRC, the 20mm was no more effective than the 37mm.

Those that flew the P-400 preferred that version over the P-39 because of the 20mm as they claimed it was more reliable than the 37mm cannon on the P-39.  The added benefit of having the 20mm was it made the P-400 lighter than the P-39 with the 37mm cannon.


ack-ack

[Squire]

The P-39 is a real quagmire of varients, and there is often confusion over what was what.

The P-39D-1 was the "Aircobra I" for the RAF. When the British cancelled the order, the USAAF renamed it "P-400" and issued it to units in the SW Pacific. Thats the only American version to have the 20mm cannon.

The Russians also received some from the British order.

So, there wasn't a "seperate" U.S. "20mm P-39", they were all the same production block of P-39D-1s, all originally for export to the RAF.

All the P-39s designed for the USAAF were armed with a 37mm in the nose. The export models that went to the Russians also all had the 37mm, save for the ones mentioned above.

Its easy to see how things get confusing.

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Tilt
Are you sure that Pokryshkin went on to fly Kingcobras

king cobra vvs regiments

888iap
781iap
147iap(1946)
17iap (claimed the one and only P63 kill of WWII on 15th august agin a
ki27 or ki43)

Pokryshkin was in charge of a Division by late 44 (9GIAD) which (in the main) converterd to la7's although he retained his P39N white 100. Or so I thought.

Ant way AFAIK none of the above regiments were in 9GIAD

The P-63 was ONLY supposed to be used in the far eastern part of Russia, by an agreement with the United States, not to be used on the (Russian) western front.  Officially the P-63 never flew in the western front.  Stalin wouldn't lie to us, would he?
Pokryshkin himself has been reported to having stated his group switched to the P-63 KingCobra late in the war.  There have been other reports of KingCobras going up against German aircraft..... for that to happen, Soviets would have to had ignored the agreement and outfitted front line units.

Very hard to find much definitive information on Lend Lease craft in use with the Soviets during WWII.  They downplayed anything they did not build themselves.  All part of the propaganda war for Mother Russia.  

So, can I find conclusive evidence regarding the use of the Airacobra and KingCobra by Russia during WWII?  Not easily enough for me to bother with.

[eskimo2]

I think its hard to find accurate information on anything to do with Russia in that era.  For example: many plane production numbers vary from source to source and look like roundd estimates.

[Shuffler]

Woohoo vote for P39... 80th flew them too

[Squire]

Is there some reason why the Soviets would freely admitt to using the Hurricane, P-40, Spitfire, P-39, A-20, and others, but not the P-63?

There are wartime photos of Soviet crews in all those a/c, including official propoganda photos of their leading aces posing in front of P-39s, so why would they care?

[DiabloTX]

I'll be thankful if we get to fly the P-39 and couldn't care less what model it is.  I just want to fly it.