Author Topic: 109 steep dive  (Read 861 times)

Offline df54

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109 steep dive
« on: May 04, 2007, 04:39:20 PM »
Someone correct me if im wrong but i thought that109's control
surfaces were suppossed to tighten up at high speeds. Have posted
film at picture hanger which shows otherwise. There is no way a 109
should pull out of a dive at 450+mph


  p.s. Not sure how to post film here

Offline Kweassa

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109 steep dive
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 04:45:46 PM »
We call it "trim"

Offline Lusche

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109 steep dive
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2007, 04:52:04 PM »
They do tighten up, and without manual trim and, depending on situation, kicking rudder you will not be able to pull out.
Learning how to handle the 109s at that speeds is your key to survival.
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Offline df54

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re:109
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2007, 04:56:31 PM »
I was in the yak and using steep dive for defensive tactic per soda.

Offline Krusty

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109 steep dive
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2007, 04:57:43 PM »
450MPH isn't that fast, really... The 109K-4 does that much in level flight (that's almost its top speed). A dive is going to have to get to 500mph for a 109 to stiffen up, and perhaps 550+ before it really locks up.

Offline Blooz

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109 steep dive
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2007, 04:57:47 PM »
The trick is to get the 109 to 450 (or more) then you do something that he can't.

He won't be able to follow your move.

It's one of the ways less maneuverable planes can win a fight.
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Offline BaldEagl

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109 steep dive
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2007, 05:02:52 PM »
Yep, all you have to do is manually trim elevators up and it will pull right out.
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline df54

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109
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2007, 05:39:47 PM »
in other words gaming the game. in real world could 109 pull out of o dive at 450+mph

Offline Lusche

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Re: 109
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2007, 05:55:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by df54
in other words gaming the game. in real world could 109 pull out of o dive at 450+mph


:huh

Manual trim is far from being gaming the game - it's what a real pilot constantly has to do.

And by the way, like it was already stated, the 109K has a top speed in level flight of more than 450 mph - so it must  be able to dive at least that fast... :aok
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Offline Jonny boy 8

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109 steep dive
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2007, 06:09:49 PM »
the only resson i dont fly me109s is the dives and turns. it always shutters when i turn it at about 250mph.

p51srule:aok

Offline BaldEagl

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109 steep dive
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2007, 06:39:27 PM »
I guess thses guys were gaming the game?

On May 4, 1940, a Bf.109E (Wn: 1304) was flown to RAF Boscombe Down, where it was appraised by the Aircraft and Armament Experimental Establishment (A & AEE); then later flown to the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) at Farnborough for handling trials, and allocated the serial number AE479. The results of the RAE's evaluation were discussed on Thursday, March 9, 1944 at a meeting of the Royal Aeronautical Society in London, at which M.B. Morgan and R. Smelt of the RAE lectured on 'The aerodynamic features of German aircraft'. About the Bf.109E they had this to say:



Safety in the Dive

During a dive at 400 mph all three controls were in turn displaced slightly and released. No vibration, flutter or shaking developed. If the elevator is trimmed for level flight at full throttle, a large push is needed to hold in the dive, and there is a temptation to trim in. If, in fact, the airplane is trimmed into the dive, recovery is difficult unless the trimmer is pulled back owing to the excessive heaviness of the elevator.

[EDIT]  I guess I could have pointed out that in the game, if you have combat trim turned on, it will automatically trim into the dive which is what the pilots above caution against, so if you don't trim out manually you will dive into the dirt like a lawn dart.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 06:57:36 PM by BaldEagl »
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline RTR

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109 steep dive
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2007, 07:05:45 PM »
I had a 109G2 over 500 mph in a dive the other day in the AVA.

No big deal, it still had elevator authority, although it was beginning to get sluggish.

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Offline df54

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soda's evaluations
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2007, 09:30:13 PM »
All 109's have the same weakness to high speeds.  Over 450mph they all suffer terrible compression problems that can lead to almost total loss of control in a terminal dive

Offline Sweet2th

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109 steep dive
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2007, 10:41:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
450MPH isn't that fast, really... The 109K-4 does that much in level flight (that's almost its top speed). A dive is going to have to get to 500mph for a 109 to stiffen up, and perhaps 550+ before it really locks up.


Krusty has a good point there.

549 MPH B-N-Z  started the dive from 25-K target was at or about 14-K or under that and i was able to regain 21-K of altitude back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr7SA7G8TXY

Offline 1K3

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Re: 109
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2007, 01:10:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by df54
in other words gaming the game. in real world could 109 pull out of o dive at 450+mph



Yes 109 could pull out with ease at 450+.  At 550 you need to use elevator trims.