Ethnic Profiling: Does it Work?

[Odee]

Case in point follows, from FOX News.

NEW YORK -- Six men from New Jersey have been arrested in an alleged terror plot against soldiers at Fort Dix, according investigators.

Investigators said the men planned to use automatic weapons to enter Fort Dix and kill as many soldiers as they could at the N.J. base. Fort Dix was just one of several military and security locations allegedly scouted by this group, authorities said.

Investigators told Newschannel 4's Jonathan Dienst that these arrests are the result of a tip to the FBI and use of an informant to track the suspects. The terror suspects traveled over the last several months from New Jersey to the Poconos where they practiced firing automatic weapons, investigators said.
 

Investigators said the group discussed targeting numerous locations like Dover Air base, Fort Monmouth and several Coast Guard stations before deciding on Fort Dix as their intended target. Fort Dix is run in part by the Army and is a reserve-training center, but active units take part in training, including some which focuses on counter-terrorism.

It is not clear how far along the alleged terror plot was, or when investigators first learned about it. Investigators said the group of suspects have been discussing and planning for much of the last year. They allegedly pooled their savings to pay for the operation that investigators said targeted soldiers stationed here at home.

The six suspects arrested Monday night will face terror conspiracy charges. Three of the men are brothers, all believed to be islamic radicals. Authorities have told Newschannel 4 that some of the men were born in Albania and the former Yugoslavia. Investigators said most of the suspects have spent several years here in the U.S.

Some of the group's alleged planning was caught on video and audio tape, investigators said.

Spokesmen for U.S. Attorney Chris Christie and the FBI in New Jersey and Philadelphia could not be reached for a comment.

Given the above information, and trying to set aside emotions, do you agree, or disagree that ethnic profiling should be used in Homeland Security...  That is, keeping you and your loved ones safe from harm?  And at what point, would you be willing to step in and do something to stop an attack on fellow citizens at, say... Your local Mall?

[Sting138]

I think that Ethnic profiling works.

Hell when a city is 80% black and 80% of the crimes committed are by blacks then yeah, I say it does.

[Chairboy]

Given the above information, and trying to set aside emotions, do you agree, or disagree that ethnic profiling should be used in Homeland Security... That is, keeping you and your loved ones safe from harm? And at what point, would you be willing to step in and do something to stop an attack on fellow citizens at, say... Your local Mall?

You're tugging on heart-strings to justify racial profiling.  "My loved ones", "stop an attack on fellow citizens", "Local mall".  

Well guys, it sure worked back in WWII with the japanese-american detainment.  That's the fine example set, perhaps future generations can admire our use of racial profiling as much as we do the interment of the 40s.

There are 1.4 billions muslims in the world, millions of them in the US.  Step one, identify a large group as "The enemy".  Step two, dehumanize them as a group.  Step three, any damn attrocity you want.  It's ok, we can do anything to stop an attack at our local mall.  That whole constitution thing, those guys would have approved of it being put aside at whim if they could protect the mall, right?

[Odee]

I am not "tugging at the heart strings"...  Said as much in the opening, but in typical fashion, you chose to knee-jerk react.

Yes this is a very controversial topic, full of emotions on all sides.  Try to set the "emotion" side of the equation and honestly answer the question(s) put forth.

[GRUNHERZ]

HAHHHHAAHHAA check it out now...

'Islamic radicals' arrested in plot to kill U.S. soldiers"

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/08/fortdix.plot/index.html

[Chairboy]

Originally posted by Odee
I am not "tugging at the heart strings"...  Said as much in the opening, but in typical fashion, you chose to knee-jerk react.

Yes this is a very controversial topic, full of emotions on all sides.  Try to set the "emotion" side of the equation and honestly answer the question(s) put forth.

Might I respectfully suggest you re-examine the specific language you used?  You didn't say:

"Based on recent events, perhaps a re-examination of the efficacy of racial profiling should be considered.  While controversial, there may be legitimate uses of this technique in certain circumstances."

Instead, your post went straight for emotions with references to "loved ones" and the spectre of our local Mall being overrun by jihadists the moment we take our eye off of the local mosque.

My knee ain't jerkin, it's just dancing to a rhythm you established in your initial post.

[Brenjen]

Racial profiling is  an absolute must. If a police officer is called to the scene of a mugging & the offender is an elderly white woman with a walker; it wouldn't make much sense for him to be stopping young black men in jogging suits now would it?

 Sometimes you people slay me.

[Dadano]

No.

I agree with Chairboy's logic. The idea is absolutely absurd, as well as the "Fair and Balanced" way you presented it.

[Maverick]

In looking over both of the cited articles I found nothing to indicate that either racial profiling or ethnic background had a part in discovering the plot. The fact that the individuals were islamic also was not a part of finding them. It was their actions that seemed to tip off people who then notified the authorities. Hardly a classic case of profiling when the LEO's aren't brought in until after a citizen provides a good tip.

[kamilyun]

If you are saying we need ethnic profiling to capture Muslim terrorists, you are patently wrong.  Islam is a religion, and it's adherents are from all sorts of backgrounds.  Case in point...this story.  If these guys are of Albanian and Yugoslav backgrounds, they certainly look quite different from an Egyptian or Saudi, who are ethnically distinct from Iranians, who are ethnically distinct from Pakistanis, who look nothing the sub-Saharan Muslims.  In Britain and France today, there are plenty of whites/Caucasians of strictly European backgrounds who are Muslims.

[Masherbrum]

Bringing automatic weapons to an Army Base is like trying to holdup a Dunkin Donuts full of cops.

I say shoot em with they're own weapons and feed em to the Atlantic Ocean.

[Mickey1992]

I think some of you are confusing racial profiling with ethnic profiling.

3 of the 6 were illegals living in the US.  If the US government would just enforce the existing immigration laws this threat would have most likely been negated.

[Yeager]

of course you use ethnic (racial) profiling as a single tool in a bag of tools.  Would also use the religious profile tool.  The nationality profile tool, the sexual profile tool.  

Most of these nutjobs are of a specific ethnicity (race), specific religion, from specific countries and typically male.  Whats the problem?  are we hurting certain liberal tendencies to be purposefully blind to the threat against us?  All in the name of protecting the rights of terrorists?

[Squire]

You guys realise of course that Albanian born muslims aren't arab or dark skinned right?

Its like trying to racially profile a Catholic from a Protestant in N. Ireland, they dont look like Mohamed Atta, they look like a white european.  

Apparently they took a home video on VHS of their activities to a local store and wanted some guy to burn it on DVD, and he saw the tape and called the FBI. As with most criminals, these guys were not very smart. Had nothing to do with their race or religion, it was just a tip from the public, which is what gets many of them arrested.

...here, have a look at the Albanian defence minister (on the right) put a check shirt on him with a BBQ grill and a chef coverall that says "Worlds Best Dad" and he's your neighbour:

http://lugar.senate.gov/graphics/photos/leaders/2005/albanian_defense_minister.JPG

[Yeager]

the more tools you have in the toolbag the better equipped you are to deal with problems.