Ethnic Profiling: Does it Work?

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Sting138
I think that Ethnic profiling works.

Hell when a city is 80% black and 80% of the crimes committed are by blacks then yeah, I say it does.

I think this bears repeating.




Then it bears pointing and laughing.

[Odee]

I see definitions are in need too...
ETHNIC An ethnic group or ethnicity is a population of human beings whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry. (1) Recognition by others as a distinct ethnic group is often a contributing factor to developing this bond of identification. (2) Ethnic groups are also often united by common cultural, behavioural, linguistic, ritualistic, or religious traits. (3) Processes that result in the emergence of such identification are summarized as ethnogenesis.

The term is used in contrast to race, which refers to a classification of physical and genetic traits perceived as common to certain groups

RACE The term race describes populations or groups of people distinguished by different sets of characteristics, and beliefs about common ancestry. The most widely used human racial categories are based on visible traits (especially skin color, facial features and hair texture), and self-identification.

Conceptions of race, as well as specific ways of grouping races, vary by culture and over time, and are often controversial for scientific as well as social and political reasons. Many scientists contend that while the features on which racial categorizations are made may be based on genetic factors, the idea of race itself, and actual divisions of persons into groups based on selected hereditary features, are social constructs.

Since the 1940s, some evolutionary scientists have rejected the view of race as a biologically meaningful concept. A majority of evolutionary scientists reject the notion that any definition of race pertaining to humans can have any taxonomic rigour and validity.[3] Mainstream scientists have argued that race definitions are imprecise, arbitrary, derived from custom, have many exceptions, have many gradations, and that the numbers of races observed vary according to the culture examined. They further maintain that "race" as such is best understood as a social construct.


Unfortunately, the two terms have been misrepresented for so long as to be indistinguishable in everyday use...

Originally posted by Dadano
No.
I agree with Chairboy's logic. The idea is absolutely absurd, as well as the "Fair and Balanced" way you presented it.

Well... the obvious thing for you, or Chairboy to do would be couch what I presented in a "Fair and Balanced" way... Wouldn't it?

The question is "Does it work"  So far I see a majority of "NO",  with a few examples of why it does, or does not work.

The second part of the question hasn't been addressed yet:  How far would you go to protect your fellow citizens, and loved ones in a given example...  The Mall scenario.  Granted one cannot help but be emotional when those nearest you are in danger, but what about the everday people you interact with?  Strangers, one and all?

[Chairboy]

Originally posted by Odee
Well... the obvious thing for you, or Chairboy to do would be couch what I presented in a "Fair and Balanced" way... Wouldn't it?

Are you reading the same thread?  That's exactly what I attempted to do in my second post on this subject.  Look for the quotation marks.

[Odee]

Originally posted by Chairboy
Are you reading the same thread?  That's exactly what I attempted to do in my second post on this subject.  Look for the quotation marks.

You mean this one in the middle of what I thought was knee-dancing?

"Based on recent events, perhaps a re-examination of the efficacy of racial profiling should be considered. While controversial, there may be legitimate uses of this technique in certain circumstances."

May I use that in future postings?

[Chairboy]

So you're not even reading what people are saying when they reply to you?  Why would anyone want to have a conversation with someone who's just going to ignore them?

That shows a real lack of respect.  While I disagree with you, I've listened and considered the arguments you made before replying.  Please consider returning the favor.

[Sixpence]

Great thread....for me to poop in!!!

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by midnight Target
I think this bears repeating.




Then it bears pointing and laughing.

Ya MT, I was wondering if I was the only person that got just how stupid this statement was. I'm sure others did and chose to ignore it as not beign worth a response.

[CHECKERS]

Allah or Jesus

    Living in the Detroit area I can concur with this, we have more Muslims in our neighborhood monthly and they are very active in the schools preaching all the time about their "rights" and how tolerant we should be of their faith. However tolerance is a one-way street with them. We are to learn about Ramadan, etc. but they are not to learn about Easter or Christmas. What is below is very true. "In God We Trust"

    The Basics of Islam

    The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!

    Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance.

    During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers
    representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.
    I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.

    The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

    When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the  world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

    There was no disagreement with my statements and without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

    I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

    The expression on his face changed from one o f authority an d command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

    He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

    I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

    The Imam was speechless.

    I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

    You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

    Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the "Diversification" training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing t he truth abou t the Muslim's beliefs.

    I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized

    Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well-known leader in prison ministry.

[Chairboy]

How interesting: "especially in the minority races!"

[AWMac]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Great thread....for me to poop in!!!

What Profiling?

Did I miss something here?

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by CHECKERS
Allah or Jesus



    Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance.

    During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers
    representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.
     

I was ordered to take a "sensitivity training" class exactly like this, the opinions on the existence of allah, god and all that were first.. fascinating stuff.

Followed after lunch by (no joke) 2 gay dudes, 2 hot lesbos and a DRAG queen (where I learned DRAG = DRess As Girl). The DRAG queen was the best, he was upset 1/2 of us got drunk at lunch tho...

It seems as though this case was the result of a tip, not any kind of profiling. Profiling GENERALLY consists of noticing a persons race THEN forming PC to stop / detain them. We profiled white males often, 1st because they stuck out, 2nd a good 90% of the time they were in the ghetto for vice related endeavors.

[x0847Marine]

Heres how profiling worked from my experience BTW...

Police reports have dozens of checkboxes / fill in the blank stuff, all that info is crunched into database and spits out data.. most of which isn't race related.

Data might suggest daytime burgs most occur between 3-6pm, car thefts 10pm-3am...  Maybe it indicates Chevy impalas / Honda's Accords are the most stolen cars..  basically crime trends. It lets the police brass plan pro-active measures for the patrol slugs to ignore..."extra patrol the entire city"

The data can also offer race profiles, which is just another piece of the overall crime picture. If our information told us 80% of white males were arrested between 11pm - 2am in a particular area looking for dope / hookers... should the police just ignore that because someone migt get offended?

[Mr No Name]

Racial profiling alone, no... but it is important to use in conjunction with other proven methods.

[-CodyC]

Originally posted by CHECKERS
Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well-known leader in prison ministry.

I can't help but think this email you received is like so many others everyone receives about something that someone supposedly said but in fact never happened.  We like to think it happened because it makes us feel good as Americans, as christians, but that is its only purpose.  
I could be wrong though, it could have happened word for word as the email says, it "is a true story."  This just sounds like the kind of stuff Pat Robertson would read on the 700 Club to get his followers fired up.  It's probably pertinent to note that i am not a fan of Pat nor am i a christian, this is more of an objective view on what you posted.  

As far as profiling goes i don't have an answer to your question, just a question.  Most muslims would probably say that the radical wings of their religion make up at most what? 1%(just a guess, hypothetical).  I'd say there is a similar number of radical christians out there in comparison to the majority of those we interact with on a regular day.  So is it fair to profile an entire group of people because 1% ruin it for everyone else?  I don't know, maybe.  Maybe that old saying i used to hear in 10th grade history about the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few have some credibility on this topic.

[Rino]

Originally posted by Chairboy
You're tugging on heart-strings to justify racial profiling.  "My loved ones", "stop an attack on fellow citizens", "Local mall".  

Well guys, it sure worked back in WWII with the japanese-american detainment.  That's the fine example set, perhaps future generations can admire our use of racial profiling as much as we do the interment of the 40s.

There are 1.4 billions muslims in the world, millions of them in the US.  Step one, identify a large group as "The enemy".  Step two, dehumanize them as a group.  Step three, any damn attrocity you want.  It's ok, we can do anything to stop an attack at our local mall.  That whole constitution thing, those guys would have approved of it being put aside at whim if they could protect the mall, right?

     You paint with a very broad brush there Mr Tolerance.