Beating a dead horse.....

[Guppy35]

.Just to get this right. Is it a good or bad thing to fly as a squad useing "squad tactics" in the AvA? I'v been seeing alot about "we've been trying to get more people and squads to fly in the AvA..." So should we only fly as a squad when other squads are on?


Sure, why not?

Don't recall asking for the perfect 1 v 1.

Lets just keep the fight at a reasonable alt, with potentially co-alt merges so everyone has a chance at the start.

I think its the idea of 3-4 on 1 with the 3-4 at alt all the time bouncing the lower guy that gets old for folks.

Most of us love mixing it up in a crowd.

Since no one is really dying, who cares.  It's a fun challenge to see how long you can last.

If 4 of yours merge with 2 of mine, it's all good. I'll die no doubt, but at least it's not the pick em and B n Z em to death routine where the low guy is just putting off the inevitable against superior numbers

And if numbers get too off, one of the perks of the AvA is being able to switch back and forth.  I sure don't care if a squadie shoots me down.  I'd prefer even sides myself.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Larry
Okay Ill be at 35K gasping for air in my spit seeing if I can get to mach 3 when I dive in on you while you're fighting a P38.

LOL, I'm assuming you'll rip your wings off and auger into the ground trying to pull out while shooting at my 109G 20 feet off the deck so go for it

[Larry]

Originally posted by Guppy35
LOL, I'm assuming you'll rip your wings off and auger into the ground trying to pull out while shooting at my 109G 20 feet off the deck so go for it

Dont worry wings only slow you down.

[Larry]

Originally posted by Guppy35

Sure, why not?

Don't recall asking for the perfect 1 v 1.

Lets just keep the fight at a reasonable alt, with potentially co-alt merges so everyone has a chance at the start.

I think its the idea of 3-4 on 1 with the 3-4 at alt all the time bouncing the lower guy that gets old for folks.

Most of us love mixing it up in a crowd.

Since no one is really dying, who cares.  It's a fun challenge to see how long you can last.

If 4 of yours merge with 2 of mine, it's all good. I'll die no doubt, but at least it's not the pick em and B n Z em to death routine where the low guy is just putting off the inevitable against superior numbers

And if numbers get too off, one of the perks of the AvA is being able to switch back and forth.  I sure don't care if a squadie shoots me down.  I'd prefer even sides myself.

But thats the whole piont. If you fly 109s and want a chance of living you need alt. The only german planes Id turn vs. hurri, p38G, p40s and spits are the 109E and 1190C anything else I need alt or I die trying to turn.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Larry
But thats the whole piont. If you fly 109s and want a chance of living you need alt. The only german planes Id turn vs. hurri, p38G, p40s and spits are the 109E and 1190C anything else I need alt or I die trying to turn.

If you enter the fight at 5K and nose down at the merge, how much E do you need?  

Against those "Noobs' with alt today I was going in at about 2-3K and they were above me.  The challenge was to counter that and find a way to win.  

If living is your ultimate goal, then I suppose the odds against you at that alt are worse then if you are high alt booming and zooming.

I'm of the belief, that since i really don't die, that the challenge of the more difficult circumstances is more appealing.  I don't want to control every advantage.  I want to see if i can counter them and win anyway.

But then again I'm a sucker for the underdog role

I had one knock down drag out on the deck fight today in the 109G6 where I ended up with two kills on Spits that bounced me from on high and was in the process of knocking down a third when the 4th got me.  I was working flaps,Rudder and throttle like crazy trying to force overshoots etc.

OK I didn't live, but it was a helluva good time and good fight.  And again I had gone trolling for Spits at about 3K.

How you approach it is up to you, and for that very reason, other guys may approach it the same way, with a plane that you don't like.  Their priority is living far more then making it a good fight.  And it's their dime to do so.

When I was reading the old posts from the last time I got on the soapbox, there was one from you where you suggested losing the points, score messages etc.  And you know what, that's a great idea because it changes the entire goal of the game.  The fight becomes the priority, not getting your name in lights or worrying about your score.

I think most of us who have continued to play this game, live for those fights where it's 'white knuckle' time where you are really working against the other guy and the issue is in doubt.  You are using all the tricks you've got and the clock moves so slow it seems like the fight is forever.  Living and dying becomes secondary to the effort and the fun of those encounters.

Most of us can remember those great ones and continue to hunt for more.  I'm of the belief the AvA can be the place for those kinds of fights.

Jeez I'm on the mount today.  Guess it's because it's Sunday

[Eagler]

so is the complaint the planeset ot the tactics used by some?

if it is the planeset, I would vote for storchs suggestion or leave the allied planes alone and add the 109f - seems odd to have the spitV and not it.

tactics can only be controlled by the players.
I do not see AvA as a room for "squad tactics" as there is usually not enough ppl in it for that.
It is up to the senior ppl and squad leaders to keep the numbers even as possible and limit the ganging, picking & hoing.
Sorry, the "they did it first" excuse is ok for children but I always learned two wrongs do not make a right.

[TexMurphy]

Dan

I agree with you on all accounts but tbh where can one find a fair fun fight in AH?

MA? Sure sometimes one can find them and one has to enjoy them while they last.

AvA? well imho chance is a bit bigger then in the MA but low numbers make it hard.

DA?  sure DA can be fun but its too contained and too set up to be thrilling... its a work out session and while workouts can be fun well they aint the real thing...

Tex

[storch]

howdy eagler,

my complaint is about the almost incessant use of the hurriIIc in the AvA.  the behavior of the players is inconsequential at best.  in the AvA, ideally the hurriIIc should be eschewed, but if not then used only sparingly.  if a hurri is needed for a setup we have the hurriI for the early war and the hurriIId as a ground attack platform.  if a hurri was used in NAfrica/ italy it was a mudmover not a raptor.

let's check the honesty meter here.  can we agree that the hurriIIc is incorrectly modelled in AH?  during WWII this airframe was withdrawn from frontline service from 1942 onwards for a very good reason, it was far outclassed by all other opposing combatants by that time.  it was relegated to an attack role exclusively where it performed brilliantly but it was a miserable fighter by 1943.  the AH rendition will climb like a frightened angel turn about like hummingbird and shoot you down from 1k out with laser precision cannon.  this may be ok for the abomination which is the MA but simply unacceptable and counter productive to the concept of what an arena such as the AvA should be.

it's time for these facts to be considered by the AvA staff and limit, if not eliminate this model's usage until such a time as HTC sees fit to address their erronious flight model for this plane.


howdy dan,

I can usually be found below 8k as can most of the JG54 players.  occassionally we will climb if there are altmonkey types picking the low fights. like the times akak shows up or those other saps.

regarding the often visited dual topics of the HO and ganging, we know from historical evidence that it was the preferred method of attack by the American forces, especially in the pacific.  the recent episodes of dogfights on the history channel serve only encourage and re-enforce this practice.  as long as there are players who are willing to trade a death for a possible kill we will have the HO to contend with.  we might as well assume any merge will result in a HO from the opponent and learn to snap that nose about tighter so as not to present that target.  never the less a good number of our deaths will be the result of the HO.

I would like to continue visiting the AvA and I would like to see it grow back to the levels prior to the release of AHII.  however I will not accept the bashing on the part of some that our squad is the root of all evil in that arena.  

some of you guys whine an awful lot about my text etiquette while on line yet never consider that I seldomly initiate the exchanges but have a knack for response that irritates some.  my suggestion is don't play with fire.  to quote the rolling stones "if you start me up" some folks may want to keep that keep in mind before starting a text tirade against me or the squad.  I relish those opportunities and to me they constitute fun of the highest order.  I could care less about how it makes others "feel".

some of you guys complain about our game play ettiquette.  I'll preface the response by saying that we seldomly fly as squad in any arena but when do we can difficult to fight against because for the most part we stay in 109s/190s/110s and do a credible job with them.  at no times are there ever more than 8 of us on, with our few players we routinely run into the megasquads with bad results for them.  we have become proficient in our chosen cartoon planes.  another factor that affects others is that our squad turnover is very very low so we "know" each other pretty well, that leads to a fairly cohesive style of play even in spontinaity.  JG54 is a successful veteran cartoon squad.  we don't advertise for players, we don't have a squad night, we don't do missions, we don't participate in events, we seldomly co-ordinate in the tower and we don't often combine our attacks in the air.  we recruit noobs that show a leaning to axis rides and help them move along from within the squad.  what little we have learned we have done so by hours and hours of play believing that experience is the best teacher.  the squad text and vox are an often profane commentary about our last deaths in more or less individual fights or WTGs for kills landed.  to sum it up we're not the force some of you guys credit us with being. we just like cartoon german aircraft and fly them almost exclusively.  I'm not sorry if we annoy you, personally I live for that and is a great source of gratification to me.  I view you guys in the same light I view any competitor in business or in play.

[VWE]

Mmmmm... I like pie!  

[KONG1]

pi r gud

[Guppy35]

Storch,

In reply to your last post.

Regarding the IIc.  I am not a fan of the IIc in any of the arenas.  It turns well and had 4 cannon.  That's why it's such a pain in the arenas.  Those 4 cannon.  In a furball it's a killer and that's why folks fly it.  Like the F4U1-C or N1K, or even LA7.  The multiple cannon make it a bigger factor then it should be as 1 hit and you are done.

You could argue the same thing about the 110.  It was a miserable failure as a fighter historically, yet guys fly it a lot in the arenas as it has that big punch in the nose.  I suppose you could argue about the 110 flight model the same way having seen that thing turn with planes it historically would have never been able to turn with.

But I believe it's the cannons that make folks take it.  Easier to shoot people in the face like the Hurri IIc.  I hate those things as i know anytime I'm nose on with one, he's going to be shooting.


As for the rest of it.  More power to ya for your competitive nature.  Personally I can't take it that seriously, but that's me.  

Because you are a bunch of vets, and because you do fly the AvA, it would help if you'd use that status and step back from that competitive part for a bit, to help the cause, which is to build up the AvA population.  

Again,helping to set the tone, knowing it's going to be a process getting some of the new folks to lose that MA mentality, would be helpful.  That's all I'm suggesting.

And yeah that means not resorting to the MA type stuff when a new guy does it in the AvA.  Better to start teaching them there is a better way to play.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Because you are a bunch of vets, and because you do fly the AvA, it would help if you'd use that status and step back from that competitive part for a bit, to help the cause, which is to build up the AvA population.  

Again,helping to set the tone, knowing it's going to be a process getting some of the new folks to lose that MA mentality, would be helpful.  That's all I'm suggesting.

And yeah that means not resorting to the MA type stuff when a new guy does it in the AvA.  Better to start teaching them there is a better way to play.

Never happen Dan. Its asking too much.

[detch01]

Here's an analogy: The finest, most richly decorated house on the block encourages visitors in for a look-see. One of the visitors takes a crap on the coffee table in the living room. In anger, one of the regular tenants of the house takes a crap on the lap of the guy who just messed up the coffee table. In retaliation the visitor takes a crap on the tenant, who naturally is now really ticked off so he returns the insult. And the cycle continues with more and more tenants and visitors getting coated with feces. The result is the exact opposite of what the tenants want and the only ones who'll come to visit are those that like playing in a sewer. The majority of the tenants move out because they won't put up with the smell.
I'll occasionally pop into the AvA in the hopes of a bit of decent fun. Sometimes I find it. More often I realize that it was just the wind blowing the smell the other way so turn around and leave.
If it isn't text buffer warrioring it's the whining about the "unfair" planeset or the tit for tat shyte fights. Connect the dots boys, it ain't rocket science.


asw

[Grits]

What he said.

[TheBug]

I second that.  

Thursday Night 9pm EDT:aok