Rare Gripe

[FiLtH]

Just have the COs set a box pattern in the sector they are supposed to be in and leave it alone. Good bombers can hit a turning CV anyway.

[RDRTrash]

My suggestion: There's a "setup" aspect for the FSO event starting sometimes well in advance of an hour before the event.  There are only a limited number of CV's used in any event.  Any player in the event that gets there "first" can Command the CVs.  

When CV's are in use, the CiC can designate the driver, and that driver can show up early enough to take Command well in advance of the start of the frame.  

That's just my $0.02; command privileges comes with responsibility.  Being at the event in time to effectively command is that responsibility.

(puts on riot gear and picks up riot shield)  Commence the verbal thrashing.

[Krusty]

Don't want to have the CV in-place until the event is just about to begin, though, as if you set it in position well in advance then folks can see where it is and when they get in uniform will know exactly where to go to kill it. I think they do it at the last second for secrecy's sake.

[Dantoo]

RDRTrash what your saying doesn't address the problem that occurred.  There was no problem with timeliness and I am not sure there ever has been.  I presume a setup CM would just place CVs in their areas at an appropriate time and that would be the best thing to do in that case.

All that happened here was that a single UNKNOWN person on that server started screwing with the CVs well after the start.  It may not have even been someone in the event.

The CM mistakenly identified someone as the miscreant.  This got sorted fairly quickly.  The CM had to act to take back control of the CVs as the CIC could not get control of the misdirected ones.  No name appeared next to the misdirected ones in the CV control panel.

To stop the UNKNOWN person screwing with the CVs, certain squad COs took control of them after being asked to.  This was the BEST SOLUTION as it allowed flexibility in control of the CVs as well as stopped the interference dead.  There were no further problems in respect of the CVs.  All troubles over in a couple of minutes.

There were some other farcical happenings not related to CVs at all.  Some of it has been repeated in this thread.  There is at least one squad that has to look at the conduct of its members.  If the squad can't get it sorted then it is up to the CMs to summarily guide them.

To prevent CICs or their nominated players from controlling CVs because of the one time interference of a single griefer (who had a total of zero effect) is the most appalling suggestion that could be entertained.

[RDRTrash]

cc Dantoo...

RDRTrash what your saying doesn't address the problem that occurred.

What I'd said was a suggestion to prevent it from happening again without a new rule or process.  Indeed you identified exactly what I'd intended to say but you said it better in your reply...

To stop the UNKNOWN person screwing with the CVs, certain squad COs took control of them after being asked to. This was the BEST SOLUTION as it allowed flexibility in control of the CVs as well as stopped the interference dead.

What I'd tried to say was to suggest that those very same squad CO's take command of the CV's at the earliest part of the frame and retain control of the CV's throughout the frame, which prevents some unknown from changing the CV's paths.

I think we are saying the same thing, I'm just suggesting that Squad CO's take and retain CV command throughout the frame as a regular pattern of behavior.

[Sled]

Originally posted by Dantoo
That worries me more than anything that happened.

Oh come now, you needn't worry, we won't suggest anything to crazy

Notice I said "Suggested Procedure".

[sgt203]

Dantoo..

I fly with VF-31 and was part of the VF-4 VF-31 Co-Op..

Our sqaud was assigned as fighter cover for CV-4 and we understaood what our orders were as far as CV control..

After the Go signal and after everyone else took off from CV4 we took off to fly a high- low cap to protect the CV..

What the problem was from our perspective was that once we were airborne we did not have control of the CV we were responsible for, hence the rift.

I think the main rift from 1hunglo's perspective was that he was told he was moving a CV against the orders of the operation was was told to release it which he did then it was left on exactly the same course he had set it on.

I knew that the other CV's were being moved clear across the map and I now know that Sled mistakenly thought it was CV-4 which was why he contacted 1hunglo.

For a period of time after everyone was airborne we did not have control of the CV we were 1. Supposed to protect and 2. were supposed to have control of per the orders of the FSO.

Once this all got worked out and control of the CV was put back with our squad there was no issue.. In fact I was given the CV to control once we got it back by the CO responsible for CAP.

By reading your post it sounds like you we saying that our Co-Op sqaud was basically (for lack of better term) "infighting" over who was supposed to control the CV or were not organized to execute our orders. That much I assure you was not the case. Those in charge were fighting to get control of the CV we were supposed to have so we could execute our mission.

It was very confusing there for a while for our sqaud because we were being told we were not to be mssing with the CV but the orders stated we were supposed to be controlling it.. Once it got worked out everything went smoothly.

I myself had no idea who was being contacted trying to get this corrected and am sorry to hear that ROC logged out of the event <<>>. We also had two players leave the event because of the confusion..

All in all once all the smoke cleared it was a very fun event and I <> those who take the time to put these together and run them for the members to enjoy..


Edit: BTW Drano the CV our group 1hunglo was on was CV4 which was the northern most CV.. It never went "Clear across the map" nor did it leave its grid. It stayed where it was supposed to all night which is why I believe 1hunglo may be saying something about your assumptions, he had nothing to do with the out of whack CV's

[Dantoo]

Sgt203 Firstly I want to say you personally were great to work with.  You will get nothing but praise from me for the way you conducted yourself and the way you communicated.

It is a complete mystery to me what was happening squad-wise with you guys.  Clearly if two guys logged not all was completely rosy, but I really don't know.  You guys personally were far more help than hindrance to me throughout.

There was a couple of guys 89buky03, was one, I can't remember the other, that were commenting on how we weren't following orders or somesuch.
This is of course a nonsense.  There was no wholesale changes to the orders.  Even if there was, they have no business taking it up.  The CIC can amend orders as needed and will often be required to.  That's part of their job.  It is not the role of players to start arguing and second-guessing the CIC.  

When you sign up for an event you voluntarily contract yourself into a hierarchy.  It is not a democracy.

Your squad CO will have to control the enthusiasm of the squad membership.  We appreciate your people just want to help and with just a little more experience they will pick up how things flow.  If they have something to say to the CIC or a CM they need to put it through their CO.  The CO has a responsibility to be their voice.  He also has a responsibility to keep a cap on enthusiasm and curb verbosity on public channels.

Now I didn't have much time to make the point during the frame but your squad CO was actually given a responsibility to "turn the cv" when it was under attack.  He wasn't given responsibility to reroute it from the course I had it set on.  I explained this early to 1hunglo and he seemed to cotton on that quite quickly.  I did not once have a problem with C4 after that first misunderstanding.  There was no relationship between that and the "rogue" who took control of the other two cvs.  1hunglo having command of the CV in fact prevented the rogue from interfering with it.  This was the clue to me that I needed to get a couple of responsible people take control of them to prevent the rogue from continuing to interfere with the event.

I got two old-stagers in Nomde and MGD to actually take control of C5 and C6.  After that all was rosy.  Too much fuss about an incident that caused just a few minutes of wasted time for just a couple of people.  Easily overcome.

The problems that this thread refers to at its start are problems with people getting out of order with their comms.  The CV thing is a wookie.  This is not about CVs.  It is about who should be talking and who shouldn't be.  Who should be contacted about problems and who shouldn't be.  It's about discipline.

Give me twenty good dogs and twenty good men and by crikey I'll get some discipline around here!!

[ROC]

The problems that this thread refers to at its start are problems with people getting out of order with their comms. The CV thing is a wookie. This is not about CVs. It is about who should be talking and who shouldn't be. Who should be contacted about problems and who shouldn't be. It's about discipline.

Can always count on Dantoo to Nail It.

[Sled]

Originally posted by Dantoo
The problems that this thread refers to at its start are problems with people getting out of order with their comms.  The CV thing is a wookie.  This is not about CVs.  It is about who should be talking and who shouldn't be.  Who should be contacted about problems and who shouldn't be.  It's about discipline.

Agreed, that is why I made the "chain of command in FSO" thread.

[RATTFINK]

I believe there was alot of confusion & miss communication.  Yes we had ppl blow up & get mad and that should haven't been the way to go.  

This game to me is a stress reliever and I luv the CM Staff that get these sweeeeett scenarios running.  I'm sorry for any problems that accured but like Sgt203 said;  

sgt203 wrote:All in all once all the smoke cleared it was a very fun event and I <> those who take the time to put these together and run them for the members to enjoy..

SLED wrote:  All wound up being worked out, it was just a big mass of confusion there for a moment.

You said it brother  Nice 262

I hope we have all learned from what went down & that we can better ourselves  

<>
rattfink
'XO' VF-31 Tomcatters

P.S.  I will CO for any Snapshot, ask ROC

[daddog]

Give me twenty good dogs and twenty good men and by crikey I'll get some discipline around here!!

Dogs? Dogs? Someone mention dogs?

At your service.

[sgt203]

<> Dantoo..

I had no idea of who was contacting who as that was not my responsibility..didnt even tune to the command channel, figured I would get info I needed, hence there was no contact from me about this..

I now assume there was more than one of our members doing so and I will have to agree that should not have been the case... Although with our squad as a co-op we kind of have 2 CO's  one should be the "voice" in these events and Im sure we will work this out for future events..

I have personally no hard feelings I had alot of fun and look forward to many more of these type events.. I find them a refreshing break of the same ole same ole of the MA's..

I do want to say <> to ROC I truly feel bad about him logging off as he probably works harder at making things fun for the rest of us than we work to just have fun... Apologies and big <> ROC..

Besides all the hub-bub I hope everyone else had as much fun as I did you guys all did a great job..

Thanks for the FUN!!!!!