Author Topic: Science requires overcoming childhood understanding  (Read 2024 times)

Offline AKIron

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Re: All smoke and no fire
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2007, 06:45:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
What needs to be rooted out is not just pseudo-science but pseudo-spirituality/religion/etc, which was sort of what the article was after, as I understood it.


I think something else that should be "rooted out" is the belief that human science has or even can have all the answers. That assumes that nothing beyond our physical universe is possible. True science makes no such assumptions.
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Offline Dadano

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« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2007, 06:53:58 PM »
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I think something else that should be "rooted out" is the belief that human science has or even can have all the answers.

I agree. Anyone who thinks science has all the answers is most definitely not a reasonable human being. Who claims this?
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Offline Booz

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« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2007, 09:18:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dadano
I agree. Anyone who thinks science has all the answers is most definitely not a reasonable human being. Who claims this?


 Religious folks fear science has all the answers and rail against it, because they thought they used to have all the answers and have been shown wrong time and time again for generations by science and the examination of reality.
 No one claims it. It's religions strawman.

 The religious now hide their gods outside the universe beyond time and space, where science can't look, in order to save them. I'm sure their weak little gods thank them.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 09:25:03 PM by Booz »

Offline vorticon

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« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2007, 09:38:10 PM »
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Originally posted by Dadano
Dawkins' believes that Islamic/Judeo-Christian philosophy is dangerous. Much the same way as Einstein believed patriotism and nationalism were detrimental to humanity. It has to do with the divisiveness of the beliefs and the intolerance they breed. From this intolerance comes hate and from this hate comes persecution.
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heh, which is funny, because theres a higher proportion of athiests that are foaming at the mouth about teh debbul kristeuns!
than there are religious people who even bother trying to argue with them, let alone get angry and hatefull.

Offline Dadano

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« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2007, 10:38:41 PM »
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Originally posted by vorticon
heh, which is funny, because theres a higher proportion of athiests that are foaming at the mouth about the devil Christians!
than there are religious people who even bother trying to argue with them, let alone get angry and hatefull.

Let me dumb down the idea a bit; people are killing each other over these conflicting philosophies. Day in, day out women and children are being blown to pieces in the name of these personal Gods. This is the problem.
It is no laughing matter. Grow up.
Dano
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2007, 10:48:42 PM »
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Originally posted by Dadano
Let me dumb down the idea a bit; people are killing each other over these conflicting philosophies. Day in, day out women and children are being blown to pieces in the name of these personal Gods. This is the problem.
It is no laughing matter. Grow up.


If you can't laugh at other people's stupidity, then what good are you?
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Offline Dadano

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« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2007, 10:59:09 PM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
If you can't laugh at other people's stupidity, then what good are you?

I do not think Voticon is stupid. His point was just a bit out in left field. I felt I had to clear things up a bit about the dangers of blind faith.
Dano
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Offline AKIron

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« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2007, 11:17:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Booz
Religious folks fear science has all the answers and rail against it, because they thought they used to have all the answers and have been shown wrong time and time again for generations by science and the examination of reality.
 No one claims it. It's religions strawman.

 The religious now hide their gods outside the universe beyond time and space, where science can't look, in order to save them. I'm sure their weak little gods thank them.


I think there are more than a few who scoff at those who believe in God while feeling superior that their own views are "scientific". A very unscientific attittude imo.
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Offline vorticon

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« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2007, 12:22:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dadano
I do not think Vorticon is stupid. His point was just a bit out in left field. I felt I had to clear things up a bit about the dangers of blind faith.


"
Let me dumb down the idea a bit; people are killing each other over these conflicting philosophies."

i didnt actually read whatever place it came from, and i should have edited it down to the divisivness and intolerance bit...

since my response was in context  to rash of posts on this and other boards involving "science", and athiests use of it to try and demonize religions.


when i want to talk about evil wackjobs killing people in the name of religion, i'll go over to one of the radical islam threads. not a  derrailed to atheism vs. theism thread.


oh, and i'm pretty sure laser was referring to people blowing themselves up in the name of religion as being stupid, not me...though that could just as easily be wishfull thinking on my part...

Offline moot

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Re: Re: All smoke and no fire
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2007, 02:39:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I think something else that should be "rooted out" is the belief that human science has or even can have all the answers. That assumes that nothing beyond our physical universe is possible. True science makes no such assumptions.

Yes, for now.. science has a way of increasing knowledge, shall we say, somewhat faster than religion? :D
Pullin your leg.
Quote
theres a higher proportion of athiests that are foaming at the mouth about teh debbul kristeuns!
than there are religious people who even bother trying to argue with them, let alone get angry and hatefull.

Source?  Sounds like a very scientific (no pun intended) study. :p

Seriously though, and sorry for continuing the derailing:
Quote
I think something else that should be "rooted out" is the belief that human science has or even can have all the answers. That assumes that nothing beyond our physical universe is possible.

It's a belief, so on the same premises that (e.g.) your faith is to be respected (if for no other reason because faith cannot be reasoned true or false), that belief oughta be respected as well.. as irrational as it is.  Not disagreeing with what you meant to say Lukster, just taking the opportunity to illustrate the perils of irrationality.
 
In all fairness, everyone has a bit of a leap of faith to them, since you must take it on faith that you are not fooled into believing reality is real, as opposed to an illusion pulled over your eyes by (e.g.) a god, à la Descartes.  One way from the branch of that choice leads to nowhere decisive, the other doesn't.
That branch is precursor to everything.
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Offline bounder

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« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2007, 07:13:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
this seems appropriate, but in the face of the Arstechnica piece...

MIMSY WERE THE BOROGOVES

'T was brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe.
All mimsy were the borogoves
And the mome raths outgrabe.


That bit is Jabberwocky by Lewis Carroll (Dodgson)

The rest of it is awful doggerel.

This is how it should go
Quote


The Jabberwocky
 by Lewis Carroll

    'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

    "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
    The frumious Bandersnatch!"

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the manxome foe he sought—
    So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
    And stood awhile in thought.

    And, as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    One, two! One, two! And through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    "And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
    Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
    O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
    He chortled in his joy.

    'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

Offline myelo

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« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2007, 08:17:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bounder
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves


That's also quoted in Gribbin's  "In Search of Schrodinger's Cat" where he explains that the quantum world is so different then the one we experience, that using terms like "spin" and other analogies just confuses the issue and you would better off just using gibberish.

Probably what gunthr was getting at.
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Offline bounder

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« Reply #72 on: May 26, 2007, 08:32:56 AM »
None of Jabberwocky is gibberish though - it gave rise to at least one addition to the English language.

Offline x0847Marine

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« Reply #73 on: May 26, 2007, 11:44:12 AM »
It would be fantastic if the nuttier than Squirrel poop jesus freaks would "shut up" and leave us non believers alone... apparently I'm going to hell anyway, so  whats the point of berating me when I'm taking my GF to the clinic for a legal medical procedure that is absolutely 100% none of their business?

According to "them" if I show up to the big hell in the sky with a few abortions on the resume, eternal damnation is going to totally harsh my mellow...  FINE!!, whoop de-freak'n do I'm going to hell, great, now go home and preach to someone who gives a feces, ya freaks, and let us get on with our personal business.

I really don't care that some invisible man says I'm wrong, but I do care when my GF and I are greeted with hate by strangers with nothing better to do than shout their opinions at me.

I was never prouder of my xGF about how she handled it tho, she let her pepper spray to the talking.. nailed a few of their fat ugly brainwashed kids too. I almost proposed right then and there.

Offline Dadano

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« Reply #74 on: May 26, 2007, 11:52:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon
i didnt actually read whatever place it came from, and i should have edited it down to the divisivness and intolerance bit...

Ah...I understand what you mean. Yes, Atheism can be just as divisive, just as intolerable, and can produce hate. The bloody persecution is the subtle difference.
Quote
when i want to talk about evil wackjobs killing people in the name of religion, i'll go over to one of the radical islam threads. not a  derrailed to atheism vs. theism thread.
  oh, and i'm pretty sure laser was referring to people blowing themselves up in the name of religion as being stupid, not me...though that could just as easily be wishfull thinking on my part...

To me, it is unreasonable to conclude that the problem lies solely in the Muslim faith. The Judeo-Christian philosophy is just as much a problem. Both equally as irrational, out-dated, misinterpreted and detrimental to the world population.
Dano
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