Hello Ink,
Originally posted by ink
seagoon very well written
allthough i dont think truine GOD is bible teaching,
its mans teaching
ive heard all the arguments why people believe this is so but like every thing we have our own opinions,mine is based on the word of GOD not what man has said or done.
i think most christen religions have a aspect of truth but have been turned into something thats not the truth.
I'd love to talk to you further about this, but my fear is that an in-depth discussion of the points you raised would be a major thread hi-jack, and end up moving the thread discussion from apologetics to systematic theology (which would admittedly add a touch of irony - a discussion of the nature of the very God whose existence is being disputed).
So let me try to give you what for me is a very short answer, first off let me caveat this by saying that I was not raised in the church, and while I had heard the term "Trinity" prior to becoming a Christian and had some vague understanding of what it meant, I did not accept the doctrine because that is what the church taught me, but rather I accepted that God is Triune (three persons in one God) because that is what I understood the bible to be teaching. For instance, the OT tells us that the Messiah would Himself be Yhwh, that is why his name in Isaiah (7:14, 8:8) is given as Immanuel literally meaning "with us is God" a fulfillment of the promise that God would literally "tabernacle" or dwell with his people - and elsewhere that he would be YHWH
tsidkenu again literally God our Righteous (God himself will save us). This theme is picked up in the NT with the name Jesus which means literally "the Lord Saves." Jesus himself pointed out that the Messiah would be God incarnate to the Pharisees in Mark 12:35-37, Matt. 22:43-46, Luke 20:41-44 and this theme was picked up in the preaching of the Apostles (Peter references it in Acts 2:34 in his first sermon for instance). Jesus himself used the Greek version of the OT name of God "I AM" (from which we get YHWH) in John 8:58
"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." and the Jews hearing him immediately picked up stones to throw at him because they understood what he was saying and thought it was blasphemy. Anyway, this and other passages identify the Son of God as God as well, and elsewhere the Holy Spirit is spoken of as both a person and God. Father Son and Holy Spirit are all spoken of in Scripture as God and yet are all declared to be one (the same in substance) and therefore we have three persons, but only one God.
If you'd like I'd be willing to send you a helpful little book called
The Forgotten Trinity by James White, which has a very helpful discussion of the biblical basis and historical battles over the subject of the Trinity (as always, I'll extend that offer to anyone who wants to send me a PM request).
As for your comments about
free will, I would affirm that the Bible teaches that men are
free agents but that in their fallen state they are inclined to choose evil, I really don't want to get into a long discussion of what Thomas Boston (following Augustine) called "Human Nature in its Fourfold State."
Regarding Judgment, the Bible calls us to Judge aright, and to be discerning, what it condemns is a harsh, hypocritical, and judgmental spirit. So for instance, if a man steals things that do not belong to him on a regular basis and the evidence of that is clear, then we are not doing anything wrong (and neither is a court of law) when we rightly judge that man to be a thief. The problems come when we pridefully forget that
"there but for the grace of God go I" and that while our own thievery may not be as blatant, we too have broken the 8th commandment ("You shall not steal"). So that man may be a thief, but then again, so am I - the question is will I have the humility to repent and ask God's forgiveness admitting that I have done nothing to deserve it? May I never be the Pharisee who saw other men's sins while denying his own, and instead be the Tax Collector who cried out to God "God, be merciful to me a sinner!" (Luke 18:13)
- SEAGOON
