Author Topic: lag questions raised by help site  (Read 287 times)

Offline CAP1

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lag questions raised by help site
« on: June 23, 2007, 06:52:03 PM »
ok.....i have some questions about lag........that i've gotten from tha help site that i found linked in another thread........

"""Let’s say each player has an identical ping time of 50 milliseconds. That means information from Player 1’s front-end reaches Player 2’s front-end in about 100 milliseconds, or 1/10 of a second. If Player 2 is sitting in the tower watching Player 1 fly past at 360 mph, Player 2 will see Player 1’s plane at point B while Player 1 sees himself at point A. The distance (x) between A and B in this example would be 52.8 feet – more than the length or wingspan of most fighters! (360mph = 528 feet/sec; x = 528f/s x .1s = 52.8 ft) Note that the result would be the same if one player had a ping time of 60ms and the other 40ms. It is only the total time that matters, not one or the other. """

so what i gather from this paragraph, is that for all intents and purposes, it seems that in general, i should be targeting about 50 feet in front of where i think i see the bogie when i'm in a furball? i do realize this would have to change a bit depending on aircraft speeds, but kinda curious?

"""The first thing you must understand is that a collision can occur on one front-end but not on the other. The reason for this is the different realities caused by lag. Player 1 can see himself safely past Player 2 at point A while at exactly the same time Player 2 sees himself colliding with Player 1 at point B. Whether through maneuvering to avoid the collision or just plain luck, Player 1 did not collide on his front-end. Player 2 did. The second key to understanding collisions is knowing how HiTech mitigates collisions. It's really very simple: If a collision occurs on your front end, you suffer damage from the collision. If a collision does not occur on your front end, you do not suffer damage. This is really the only way to do it. How would you like to be Player 1 in the example above and receive collision damage after flying cleanly past Player 2 on your front-end?

"""

ok....this one seems a bit weird..i do understand what they're saying........if i'm fighting...say.......pluto(who rarely gets close enough for a collision, just the first name in my head)and i see him comming from my 1 low, and i see him pass infront and over me.....by say.....100 ft.....then suddenly i get collision message, and take damage, although on MY front end i saw clearance? but what the statement above says is that if MY front end sees it i suffer, if HIS front end sees it i DON'T. i did have that same scenario, but not with him..it was some newbie........


Warping is usually caused by extreme variations of lag. Your front-end is constantly updating the position of the other planes you can see based on the data sent to you from the host. Before it can be sent to you, though, the host must get it from the other planes' front-ends. If no update is received, the other plane(s) continue on the path it was following until an update is received. Once that update finally arrives, the other plane is moved to its new position almost instantly. In other words, it warps there. Usually, this is caused by variations in lag - either yours or theirs. If lag is consistently bad enough for warping to occur between each update, the offending player is going to get a beacon or be disconnected completely.

ok...reading this paragraph makes warps MUCH more understood.....but STILL raises a couple questions.....first...i hear a LOT of people complain about an enemy warping ONLY when shot at......if that enemy's system is say running borderline, can/would it affect his connection enough that it would mess with his lag time, thereby causing him to warp? i think it would.....seems like it would take pretty much resources to model the flight, trajectory, path, and possible impact damage from the rounds.....and the tracers too.......then if you take the statement""""If no update is received, the other plane(s) continue on the path it was following until an update is received. Once that update finally arrives, the other plane is moved to its new position almost instantly. In other words, it warps there."""" does this cause someone to just dissappear if they pull their modem chord for a few seconds? i have seen it only once muyself, where i had a pony that i got lucky enough to catch low......he was 400 in front, then dissappeared, then re-appeared 2k behind me going away....i didn't have film on either...but i don't care too much either as i don't see it too often......

thanks in advance!!!!
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline CAP1

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lag questions raised by help site
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2007, 06:53:05 PM »
forgot...here's the link to the site i referenced in the previous post...it IS VERY informative.......

http://www.netaces.org/lag/lag.htm
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline hammer

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Re: lag questions raised by help site
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2007, 07:13:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CAP1
so what i gather from this paragraph, is that for all intents and purposes, it seems that in general, i should be targeting about 50 feet in front of where i think i see the bogie when i'm in a furball? i do realize this would have to change a bit depending on aircraft speeds, but kinda curious?
You aim based on what you see on your front end. If you shoot the other plane on your front end, the other plane takes damage. You still have to lead based on what you see the other plane doing on your front end.
Quote
ok....this one seems a bit weird..i do understand what they're saying........if i'm fighting...say.......pluto(who rarely gets close enough for a collision, just the first name in my head)and i see him comming from my 1 low, and i see him pass infront and over me.....by say.....100 ft.....then suddenly i get collision message, and take damage, although on MY front end i saw clearance? but what the statement above says is that if MY front end sees it i suffer, if HIS front end sees it i DON'T. i did have that same scenario, but not with him..it was some newbie........
No. If your front end did not "see" a collision, you will not get damage. If you see the message "GameID has collided with you", it means he took damage. If you see the message "You have collided", it means you took damage. If you see them both, you both took damage. Now, lots of people will say they got damage while only receiving the "GameID has collided with you" message. That is entirely possible. It is very likely that GameID was shooting all the way in!
Quote
ok...reading this paragraph makes warps MUCH more understood.....but STILL raises a couple questions.....first...i hear a LOT of people complain about an enemy warping ONLY when shot at......if that enemy's system is say running borderline, can/would it affect his connection enough that it would mess with his lag time, thereby causing him to warp? i think it would.....seems like it would take pretty much resources to model the flight, trajectory, path, and possible impact damage from the rounds.....and the tracers too.......then if you take the statement""""If no update is received, the other plane(s) continue on the path it was following until an update is received. Once that update finally arrives, the other plane is moved to its new position almost instantly. In other words, it warps there."""" does this cause someone to just dissappear if they pull their modem chord for a few seconds? i have seen it only once muyself, where i had a pony that i got lucky enough to catch low......he was 400 in front, then dissappeared, then re-appeared 2k behind me going away....i didn't have film on either...but i don't care too much either as i don't see it too often......
I've seen people fly into the ground and then re-appear somewhere else and I've seen someone disappear and then show up somewhere else. What should happen if there connection is lost or if their update is delayed for some reason is that they continue flying as if their controls were doing whatever they were doing at the last update. Once the new update is received, they will warp to their new location.

Regards,

Hammer
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Offline Ghosth

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lag questions raised by help site
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2007, 07:26:03 AM »
Cap, in some respects its like the old towed targets of WWII.

As you fly through the AH sky's,  you are the only one who sees you where you are exactly. Everyone else sees the towed target pulled by you. How far back that is depends on your lag & theirs.  It takes 2 to tango.  :) So if you have 150ms to HTC and they have 150 your looking at almost 1/3 of a second. Thats a LONG long ways in a tight twisting fight.

The biggest thing this impacts is in a tight maneuver fight with lots of snapshots.

So your in the TA cutting it up with widewing. You and widewing both come in, do a cold merge, and immelman up. Now remember your not seeing widewings plane, your seeing his towed target. So as he comes up and around he's further around the corner than he appears. So he actually can get that shot off before he "appears" to have his guns on you. This is the single biggest concept you have to adjust for with lag.

Once you accept that he's "farther ahead than he looks" you can learn to deal with it, allow for it. If your flying defense time your maneuvers just a bit sooner to keep his guns off you. So everyone see's and shoots at the other guys towed targets, which is fine. Just remember, that we all get shot by the plane actually doing the towing. Which is ahead of the target we see.