Suggestion.

[Brooke]

There are two problems with attendence:  (1) flaky players who sign up but never show up and (2) lack of larger numbers of people who want to play scenarios.

For planning, we should probably just flat out tell CO's to plan all their missions on 2/3 of the number registered.

There isn't too much difference between registering N people and telling CO's to plan for using 2/3 * N on game day and registering 3/2 * M people and telling the CO's to plan for M on game day, which is the overbooking model.

[Old Sport]

Given the flux of players, I'm curious as to whether there may be available newer players in the MAs who aren't familiar with scenarios, who don't visit the BBs and who just don't know.
 
I wonder if a special announcement box in the lower right corner of the screen of the AH game (opposite the text buffer on the lower left) might help raise awareness. Special announcements could appear that would not distract from flying or driving, but would remain a few minutes, long enough for people to be able to take a look. A global special announcement a half hour before an event to all players in all arenas might increase numbers a bit. I know text announcements are usually made, but the amount of info possible in a line is limited and lines are ever-scrolling upward. A special static box on the lower right might be of help (and HT could also move all the other notices that pop up directly in front of you in the center of the screen always at the worst possible moment to the lower right at the same time, lol).

An additional thought - Add an "AH News" page on the clipboard that lists coming events and such, and perhaps make the events clickable if you are in the tower.

Just some thoughts.

[Skyfoxx]

Originally posted by Brooke
There are two problems with attendence:  (1) flaky players who sign up but never show up and (2) lack of larger numbers of people who want to play scenarios.

I would also add the inclusion of some walkons who are basically clueless dolts as number 3.

Imo Operation Huskey was one of the better run and officiated events in a while, and I've participated in many. The registered no shows were very disappointing but it happens everytime. My squad had no shows and I have voiced my displeasure to them about people signing up and not showing.

The registered pilots who showed from 880 and JV44 did an outstanding job for the Indomitable.
However, the walkons we received in frame 2 and 3 (despite their killing abilities) dam near torpedoed any coordination we had.
I know walkons are neccessary to fill the ranks, but is it fair to the guys who register, read the rules, recognize that there is an actual plan put forth by a chain of command, to have to put up with the constant pointless jabber on vox?

Imo it shows complete disrespect to the planners and registered pilots when "clueless Joe" comes in, is completely oblivious to any rules, the overall event, the chain of command, (sometimes even basic aircraft operation) and does nothing but tie up vox communications talking about non mission things. I kid you not, I even heard talk of brownies during flight. I expect that in the arenas, but in a scenario?
Is that fair to the players that read the rules and plan days ahead?

I tell you if any of our squad members acted like that on vox during any event, you better believe they would be reprimanded if not tossed out. There is nothing wrong with some idle chatter on vox in the proper place and time. But do you really think its time for "coffee talk" during an organized event?

I'm not trying to pick on walkons here as some do a very fine job fitting in. Its those that join up with not a care in the world and think its just another MA session all about them. It's the total lack of respect for the planners orders and radio discipline that cripes me.
I know countless numbers of you have had to put up with the very stuff I am talking about so I know its not news to most of you.

I'm sorry for this rant and believe it or not I have calmed down since frame 3. I truely wish I could offer a solution for this problem but until people who register actually show up we are gonna be forced to take walkons, some good and some very detriminal to the mission at hand.

Just to get a feel for how I and several of us felt after frame 3, below is an excerpt that I sent 880 the next morning.

 Thank you Warloc and Jed for showing yesterday. I'm sorry we had to endure that crap on vox, but thats what happens when you have to fly with a bunch of clueless tards instead of our squad.

I promised myself after last night that never again would I fly a special event where we have to take walkons. Then I got to thinking maybe I will just fly them all as a walkon myself. Then I do not have to worry about 9 pages of silly rules (those must be for the other guy), I can ask noob question after question like how do I put my flaps down, or what is a seafire. I can share my aunt mildreds secret brownie recipe on vox while we are straining to hear intel.
And best of all I can adjust my orders as I see fit. Its not like the planners put hours into it, I'm sure their plan was optional and not intended for me. I can ask whats our next target within 2 seconds of the current target falling. The GL should know within those 2 seconds surely. Oh yeah and I can say I wish you guys had told me that rule.
As a walkon I will be able to concentrate only on getting kills, to hell with the frame objectives. I will ignore orders of where to go, I will wander off to what I think looks like a good target, then I will call back and see where everyone is at.
Of course I would have known had I not been continuesly talking on the radio about non mission things. What is this radio discipline thing I have heard about. I'm sure it doesn't pertain to me.


As you can see I'm still pretty hot over the entire situation. As far as the event, I think it was one of the better constructed and run events. The CMs didn't mess with the rules alot and ran it well imo.
But imo the walkons ruined it plain and simple. And why is it that we were forced to take walkons? I leave that for you guys to ponder.

Again thank you guys who showed and shifty for running the first two frames. Shifty, your patience is remarkable.



As to the event itself, my hat is off to the designers, CMs, planners and both sides. Besides the walkon issues this was imo one to remember.

Skyfoxx

[Krusty]

Don't get me started on empty slots...

If folks aren't going to show up, they shouldn't register. PERIOD. If they think they can only show up once, maybe twice (in a 4-frame event with 2 possible practice frames before that) then they should go as walk-ons and not bother signing up.

IF they sign up they need to show up to ANY practice frames (otherwise, what am I as CO doing, bothering to show up if nobody else does?), and they need to show up to ALL frames (valid excuses permissible).

When I was CO for BOB I had an ungodly number of folks that never showed up. It was near 20%

As a CO that's total crap. I need to know I have "12" pilot to send to "that area" and not 2 pilots! I can't USE 2 pilots! I have to merge them into another half-strength unit, and now I have a huge bloody hole in my front line.

The problem is not the number of slots. Normally if there's interest they open more slots. The problem is the folks hogging the slots aren't serious.

I've been in a few scenario. OpHusky has been the worst for participation % out of all of them. There were some dedicated folks helping on both sides, but there were also a lot of folks that didn't show up or decided "I don't wanna". In a setup where axis were supposed to have 25% of all pilots in Ju88s, this never happened. There were probably folks that said "Hell no, I'm not going to show up unless I get !"

These folks need to go back to the MA, and enjoy it. They won't enjoy scenarios. ALL of us in Stalin's Fourth recall the grumblings about sticking PILOTS in VEHICLES. The HORROR! Gasp!

It was still a royal blast! Very fun scenario! Your average MA "plane X pilot" isn't going to appreciate that just because they put "plane X" into the scenario, doesn't mean you'll be flying it like the MA at all.

Anyways, I guess you got me started. I warned you not to!!!

[StuB]

Elitist attitudes do nothing to help promote scenario participation...or AH.

We had noob walkons on our side as well.  They were not much worse than the under trained and inexperienced replacement pilots that trickled into real units during the war. We brought them up to speed as quickly and as thoroughly as we could, considering the situation.  

Originally posted by Skyfoxx
I would also add the inclusion of some walkons who are basically clueless dolts as number 3.

Imo Operation Huskey was one of the better run and officiated events in a while, and I've participated in many. The registered no shows were very disappointing but it happens everytime. My squad had no shows and I have voiced my displeasure to them about people signing up and not showing.

The registered pilots who showed from 880 and JV44 did an outstanding job for the Indomitable.
However, the walkons we received in frame 2 and 3 (despite their killing abilities) dam near torpedoed any coordination we had.
I know walkons are neccessary to fill the ranks, but is it fair to the guys who register, read the rules, recognize that there is an actual plan put forth by a chain of command, to have to put up with the constant pointless jabber on vox?

Imo it shows complete disrespect to the planners and registered pilots when "clueless Joe" comes in, is completely oblivious to any rules, the overall event, the chain of command, (sometimes even basic aircraft operation) and does nothing but tie up vox communications talking about non mission things. I kid you not, I even heard talk of brownies during flight. I expect that in the arenas, but in a scenario?
Is that fair to the players that read the rules and plan days ahead?

I tell you if any of our squad members acted like that on vox during any event, you better believe they would be reprimanded if not tossed out. There is nothing wrong with some idle chatter on vox in the proper place and time. But do you really think its time for "coffee talk" during an organized event?

I'm not trying to pick on walkons here as some do a very fine job fitting in. Its those that join up with not a care in the world and think its just another MA session all about them. It's the total lack of respect for the planners orders and radio discipline that cripes me.
I know countless numbers of you have had to put up with the very stuff I am talking about so I know its not news to most of you.

I'm sorry for this rant and believe it or not I have calmed down since frame 3. I truely wish I could offer a solution for this problem but until people who register actually show up we are gonna be forced to take walkons, some good and some very detriminal to the mission at hand.

Just to get a feel for how I and several of us felt after frame 3, below is an excerpt that I sent 880 the next morning.

 Thank you Warloc and Jed for showing yesterday. I'm sorry we had to endure that crap on vox, but thats what happens when you have to fly with a bunch of clueless tards instead of our squad.

I promised myself after last night that never again would I fly a special event where we have to take walkons. Then I got to thinking maybe I will just fly them all as a walkon myself. Then I do not have to worry about 9 pages of silly rules (those must be for the other guy), I can ask noob question after question like how do I put my flaps down, or what is a seafire. I can share my aunt mildreds secret brownie recipe on vox while we are straining to hear intel.
And best of all I can adjust my orders as I see fit. Its not like the planners put hours into it, I'm sure their plan was optional and not intended for me. I can ask whats our next target within 2 seconds of the current target falling. The GL should know within those 2 seconds surely. Oh yeah and I can say I wish you guys had told me that rule.
As a walkon I will be able to concentrate only on getting kills, to hell with the frame objectives. I will ignore orders of where to go, I will wander off to what I think looks like a good target, then I will call back and see where everyone is at.
Of course I would have known had I not been continuesly talking on the radio about non mission things. What is this radio discipline thing I have heard about. I'm sure it doesn't pertain to me.


As you can see I'm still pretty hot over the entire situation. As far as the event, I think it was one of the better constructed and run events. The CMs didn't mess with the rules alot and ran it well imo.
But imo the walkons ruined it plain and simple. And why is it that we were forced to take walkons? I leave that for you guys to ponder.

Again thank you guys who showed and shifty for running the first two frames. Shifty, your patience is remarkable.



As to the event itself, my hat is off to the designers, CMs, planners and both sides. Besides the walkon issues this was imo one to remember.

Skyfoxx

[hubsonfire]

Having numerous people per side (FLs or GLs perhaps?) the moderator's ability to mute tards would a good idea.

[StuB]

The problem with that is that they wouldn't be allowed into either sides forums unless they are registered.  Personally, I don't have a problem with those who were up front about which frames they couldn't attend.
My problem is with the ones who said nothing.

Is there a way to track attendance and assign an "attendance rating" to each player?  At least with something like that CO's could make sure that those with low ratings don't get assigned to squads with a critical task.

Originally posted by Krusty
Don't get me started on empty slots...

If folks aren't going to show up, they shouldn't register. PERIOD. If they think they can only show up once, maybe twice (in a 4-frame event with 2 possible practice frames before that) then they should go as walk-ons and not bother signing up.

IF they sign up they need to show up to ANY practice frames (otherwise, what am I as CO doing, bothering to show up if nobody else does?), and they need to show up to ALL frames (valid excuses permissible).

When I was CO for BOB I had an ungodly number of folks that never showed up. It was near 20%

As a CO that's total crap. I need to know I have "12" pilot to send to "that area" and not 2 pilots! I can't USE 2 pilots! I have to merge them into another half-strength unit, and now I have a huge bloody hole in my front line.

The problem is not the number of slots. Normally if there's interest they open more slots. The problem is the folks hogging the slots aren't serious.

I've been in a few scenario. OpHusky has been the worst for participation % out of all of them. There were some dedicated folks helping on both sides, but there were also a lot of folks that didn't show up or decided "I don't wanna". In a setup where axis were supposed to have 25% of all pilots in Ju88s, this never happened. There were probably folks that said "Hell no, I'm not going to show up unless I get !"

These folks need to go back to the MA, and enjoy it. They won't enjoy scenarios. ALL of us in Stalin's Fourth recall the grumblings about sticking PILOTS in VEHICLES. The HORROR! Gasp!

It was still a royal blast! Very fun scenario! Your average MA "plane X pilot" isn't going to appreciate that just because they put "plane X" into the scenario, doesn't mean you'll be flying it like the MA at all.

Anyways, I guess you got me started. I warned you not to!!!

[Skyfoxx]

Call it elitist if you like. But when someone comes to an organized event like this and does nothing but cause disruptions, then they don't need to be there. I know the allied planners spent countless hours on orders. You think its fair for rogue pilots to disregard their efforts?
It only take a few bad apples. I'm glad you had well behaved walkons Stub but if you had to put up with our "problem children" in frame 2 and 3  I'm sure your outlook would be much different.  
I guess you missed the part where I said some walkons are perfectly behaved and perform fine.

[leitwolf]

still, the recurring pattern in scenario attendance is: land grab and perceived 'death trap' bomber spots like the Ju88 do not attract as many players as pure a2a scenarios.

While i think that Husky was a blast, i'm curious how many player a rerun of Ruhr,BigWeek or a similar placed new Scenario would attract.

[StuB]

Below is from your original post:

"As you can see I'm still pretty hot over the entire situation. As far as the event, I think it was one of the better constructed and run events. The CMs didn't mess with the rules alot and ran it well imo.
But imo the walkons ruined it plain and simple. And why is it that we were forced to take walkons?  I leave that for you guys to ponder. "

...and you don't think you are being elitist.....  Well, OK then.  

Originally posted by Skyfoxx
Call it elitist if you like. But when someone comes to an organized event like this and does nothing but cause disruptions, then they don't need to be there. I know the allied planners spent countless hours on orders. You think its fair for rogue pilots to disregard their efforts?
It only take a few bad apples. I'm glad you had well behaved walkons Stub but if you had to put up with our "problem children" in frame 2 and 3  I'm sure your outlook would be much different.  
I guess you missed the part where I said some walkons are perfectly behaved and perform fine.

[Krusty]

I don't think we should gripe about newbie walkons. If the guy is chattering nonstop, tell him point blank "cut the chatter."

If he's doing stupid things, tell him "Get back here NOW mister! Form up! Head to target!" (or whatever). If the guy is obviously new to scenarios, you have to explain things to him. This also comes out in pre-flight breifings (or on climbout if you're pressed for time).

He may not take it kindly, and he may not like it. If not, he won't come back next time. Otherwise he'll get over it and realize things work differently in scenarios.

A newbie to scenarios has to learn somehow. Either they get it or they don't, but you have to teach them by example. That doesn't mean squelching them. That means laying things out for them.

"I know you're used to the MA but this is a scenario event. We do things differently. Don't talk too much. Some of us have to monitor several channels, including where we get orders from. Only talk when it's about the mission or when in combat."

and

"We don't go just for the kill in scenarios. We have orders. We need to do 'this objective' but it doesn't matter if we get 50 kills or no kills, as long as we do the job. That might mean buzzing past enemy fighters without engaging them. Do you understand? Just follow your wingman and do what the squad leader says."

Also, this might help

"There are strict rules in here. You can only do certain things. Since you're a walk-on you haven't read the rules. Don't take off until your squad leader tells you. Don't take a different plane unless he says you can. You just go off and do your own thing without permission and you'll be ejected from the server."

They have to learn somehow. If they don't PM the CM and have the squeaker ejected.

[Skyfoxx]

Stub,
I stand by what I said, but you are misunderstanding that comment you point out.
If you will reread it, is an excerpt from an email I sent to our squad 880. The question was directed to them,  "And why is it that we were forced to take walkons?" I leave that for you guys to ponder. "

I am asking my own guys who registered if they know why we were forced to take walkons. The answer is because the people that registered did not show. That answers that question. Part of that blame falls on the registered guys who did not show.

It does not address or excuse the bad behaviour displayed by a couple of the walkons.


Krusty,
Much of what you suggested was tried, it's not like they were not told. I guess you just had to be there. And one of the guys wasn't a newbie. He is quiet a good stick in the MA. I know I've never witnessed anything quiet to that extent before, with walkons or scenario players.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Skyfoxx
Krusty,

I guess you just had to be there.

Probably

Well don't give up heart, such cases seem less common than "normal" walk-ons.

[Fencer51]

Originally posted by Skyfoxx
Krusty,
Much of what you suggested was tried, it's not like they were not told. I guess you just had to be there. And one of the guys wasn't a newbie. He is quiet a good stick in the MA. I know I've never witnessed anything quiet to that extent before, with walkons or scenario players.

I thought I saw ole squad hopper in a Seafire.

And hey don't worry about the thread hijack Skyfoxx, I know how you newbies to the forums tie up threads, don't follow the discussion, bring up other topics, you know sorta like the guys your complaining about.

[FiLtH]

Personally Im not a fan of walkons. Guys that are well aware of the event weeks prior and dont bother signing up, showing for pratices, planning etc, and wander in on game day and have no clue.

  Some folks can't commit to an event prior due to work etc. Some walkons are great and are an asset to the team.

  The thing is even the most die hard players can fail to show. When that happens, squads are too low to be effective, and any bodies seem good to have at T-10.

  Although it has its problems sometimes, its necessary and from what I have seen, has always been this way.