Author Topic: As per your request....  (Read 1247 times)

Offline humble

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As per your request....
« on: July 14, 2007, 05:29:00 AM »
Here you go...

Earlier tonight I was "accused" of "15" HO's by a certain someone. Told him he was mistaken and got the typical diatrab on 200. Told him i'd be happy to post the action in question.

The reality is that HO's are simply a part of the game....are there any here....you be the judge. All I see is questionable ACM on his part. Now the other part of the diatrab "ack hugger" certainly has some merit....then again I get bounced as I clear the field ack on takeoff and then get bounced in the ack as well.... I left the clip uneditied so its a bit long (5 min) but it shows the entire "action" in question.

Personally to me there is no "HO" beyond an actual merge, but even by the broadest possible terms the simple truth is that 90%+ of "HO's" simply are nothing but poor ACM by the victim followed by a whine......

Bad ACM=death=whine

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Offline Lusche

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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2007, 05:41:08 AM »
Just a general note not specific to this movie:

If you claim you have been Ho'ed 15 times in a single flight, you are openly stating: "I suck!". For it would be just a sign of your own fundamental inability to assess situations and to react accordingly.

Just my 2 cents...
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Offline Latrobe

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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2007, 06:28:14 AM »
just do what i do when im about to be HO'ed....when the enemy is 1000 away roll left or right as fast as your plane will go. It's as simple as that! the enemy will miss you 95% of the time.

Offline Max

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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2007, 06:28:51 AM »
The film speaks for itself; no HO. Nice A20 flyen btw. What convergence did you have those 50's set at?

Offline Yknurd

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« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2007, 08:18:52 AM »
Yeah, it's pretty 'sucky' when a spit can't help but get HO'd fifteen times.  I'd definitely say there was a pile-it behind the yoke, as in it was a big pile of feces.

I also have to laugh when someone comes in with alt in a very maneuverable plane to bounce you as you have just taken off and then they beat their chest and call you an ack hugger.  Of course, these are usually the guys that like to hit you from a BnZ and then if you manage to point your plane in their general direction then they run.  Pacerr and Serenity comes to mind when I think of these things.
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Offline WaRLoCkL

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« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2007, 08:21:02 AM »
LOL he just sucks, and any a20 vs a fighter is going to take any shooting solution that he can.

Offline WaRLoCkL

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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2007, 08:42:21 AM »
I say he needs to stick to flying his tempests and ponys and 4 hogs, so that way he has a chance of staying alive. I watched the whole flight threw snaphook and never saw him go head on. watched the O tards view and what he was talking about was a pony that shot at him from an off angle not HO.

I felt sorry for this guys team, all he did was fly over the base and watch for easy targets, never once cleared anyones six. He was just mad cause he was thinking he would vulch a base and get some kills. He got OWNED by a a20. i have several of those from the DA myself LOL. a20s are fun

Offline RELIC

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« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2007, 09:06:46 AM »
I'm not sure he was referring to you as the "HO'er" based on the earlier text regarding the pony driver.
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Offline Major Biggles

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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2007, 09:10:22 AM »
rofl

oRETARDo got owned

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Offline DoLbY

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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2007, 09:42:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by RELIC
I'm not sure he was referring to you as the "HO'er" based on the earlier text regarding the pony driver.



I'd have to agree with Relic on that one. Good A20 flying though :aok

Offline TwinBoom

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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 09:44:13 AM »
oADONAIo = skilless squeaker that talks alot of smack ,but......wont back it up ...........just proves my point .......wtg snappy:lol
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Offline Mace2004

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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2007, 09:51:23 AM »
One of the funniest complaints is the "you HO'd me" crap.  It is a fundamental tenant of ACM to neutralize your opponent.  It is a very basic thought and ALL FIGHTER PILOTS LEARN IT, as a matter of fact it's probably one of the first things you learn.  You may as well complain when someone lead turns you, pulls lead, or maintains his e.  These are all fundamentals in ACM.

If you're defensive either by angles or numbers (4 to 1 for instance) the very first thing you want to do is take away any angles the high-threat bandit presents and eliminate his ability to gain them back through an early turn.  You do this by taking him 180 degrees out (i.e., nose to nose) as close to his flightpath as possible (this takes away any turning room he has for a lead turn).  Successfully done, this takes away all of his angles and you both end up with 180 degrees to go, i.e., neutral.  If you're good at it you can actually threaten him (i.e., the HO) and potentially gain a lead turn (same as early turn) to gain angles on him.  If you do not at least attempt to neutralize him by going 180 out then you are an idiot.

Now, on the other hand, there are those that don't even try to fight tactically.  They don't even try to maneuver...just put their nose on a bandit and hold the trigger down.  While this could be justified when you're outnumbered and absolutely have to cut into their numbers there are those who only do this regardless of the tactical situation.

After looking at your film I'd say a couple of things.  First, there was not a single HO although there were several low-angle-off forward quarter deflection shots.  Second, you did an outstanding job of maintaining your SA and neutralizing the high threat bandit and/or presenting him with other considerations (i.e., your wingmen and Ack).  All of this is sound tactical doctrine and represents exactly what you would do in a RL situation....except I doubt you'd try this in an A-20.  My last observation is you need to work on your gunnery.  You missed three or four really good opportunities to eliminate a bandit.  This is just an observation and not meant as a personal slam at all...I've been needing to go back to basic gunnery school also as I've been missing alot of the same types of opportunities and need to "re-fix" my sight picture.
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Offline Goat1

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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2007, 09:51:41 AM »
I thought that was some mighty nice flying in an A20 :aok
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Offline humble

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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2007, 10:50:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by RELIC
I'm not sure he was referring to you as the "HO'er" based on the earlier text regarding the pony driver.


RELIC...

I politely asked him if he ment me since I wasnt ever close to a "HO"...let alone 15 of em:). He specifically told me I had HO'd his rudder off.....then finished him with a HO? AKAK and others were commenting in this "thread" on 200. The pony was already engaged when the spit 8 joined in...to me thats not a HO either since the pony already is positioned vs a manuevering aggressor.

If I'm front quarter to front quarter I'm going to have to decide if I want to risk an exchange with the inbound spit or potentially totally hose my relative postion to the other con.

Whats funny about the whole thing is you have a pilot of marginal ability flying in a way that he forces HO's and/or face to face encounters (normally against engaged or neg E cons)...now if the other guy breaks to avoid he has the right plane and E state to capitialize....if the other guy pops him its a "HO"....

Mace I dont recall ever graduating gunnery 101:). Sadly I fly far better then I shoot most of the time (which is a testiment to how bad my gunnery is).

This really wasnt much but SA in the A-20. I put up a clip in the training section I thought relevent (an E management thread). There are a bunch of A-20 clips here for anyone who wants a starting point on "dogfighting" the bird...

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storch

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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2007, 10:55:40 AM »
:rofl wtg and brilliant A20 work sir.