Lets add Air/Sea rescue to AH?

[475FG Savlan]

Here's my idea for what I think could be a neat alternative in the game, and may require minimal coding since it uses existing game features.

Right now you could walk/run to a base after a bail.

How about we expand on this idea & put in a different aspect of air combat operations - air/sea rescue[/b]?

Example - a buddy has a 5 kill streak, and is forced to bail, or ditch.

1- add the ability to exit a ditch without going to tower - have the option for the pilot to instead exit & get on his feet, 45 in hand.

2- said pilot calls out on country channel for a rescue

3- a fellow countryman now takes a jeep to rescue the downed pilot.

4- when the jeep gets close enough, the pilot attaches to the jeep, like we do now with bomber gunners. Perhaps now the pilot mans a 50cal in the rear of the jeep.

5- If the jeep rtb's safe, a buffer message 'player' rescued 1 pilot in a jeep of the 'squadname' - Also give the jeep player incentive with some points, like with town captures for C47 pilots.  The pilot perhaps gets partial points for living & rtb'ing...less than landing but more than bail.  Make killing said rescue vehicle worth extra points, such as giving an attacking pilot 2 kills ( one the jeep driver, one the rescued pilot ) like we do now with buffs.

6- Extend this idea to sea ops by using a Pt boat/LVT...or better yet, introduce a PBY Catalina, Feisler Storch etc!  Could be a great plane to add to the planeset, and would be used in scenarios as well ( imagine using a PBY in a Midway event  )  

7- We could expand on this even further for sea ops - make a pilot who sits in the water too long slowly black out from hypothermia - similar to the pilot wound we have now. Then add to the loadouts for some planes a sea rescue supply drop - flaregun & life raft!  Drop the raft, and the pilot can attach to it & stop the blackouts while he waits for a squaddie in a LVT, PT boat, or Catalina.
Make the flaregun functional by using the airshow smoke we have now as a tracer.

7- This would be a nice feature to introduce along with some updated artwork for that blocky, angular 1997 pistol in hand artwork, with additional flaregun artwork  - and while you have the paintbrush out, maybe a redo of the lobby splashscreen? Its also a bit too retro

Thoughts?

[Fulmar]

Well I certainly don't have the patience to wait around for someone to pick me up.  And besides, at the going rate of friendly check six calls you probably would be better off running back to base a sector away

[475FG Savlan]

My thought were that this would be an option, not a requirement.

Many would just exit & re-up, but some squads ( especially GV types ) could enjoy the option and the downed pilot can use the opportunity to take a leak, make a sandwich, etc.

I could see a fun diversion on a squad night being to rescue a downed squaddie, fighting to cover him all the way home - or the flip side, hunting down jeeps so that the bastige who shot you down earlier and ditched dosnt get home

[WMDnow]

Hmm.  Could be interesting, but I think HTC will find the system a little too complicated, kinda like NOT HAVING THE LARGE MAPS.  (Hijack over).  I support the idea.

[thndregg]

My squad would get real weary of rescuing me, lol!:rofl

[tedrbr]

I suggest you climb into a jeep in the game and run it across half a sector or even a full sector.... take 2 veh sups for when you roll it to right yourself.   See how long it takes you to make that trip.  Guesstimate how long or how often players will be willing to make such a run.

Now, imagine if you will, the guy who drives his jeep for an hour, gets to where the pilot is supposed to be down at, rides around looking for the pilot..... only to find out later the pilot was neither shot down nor in that area to begin with.  Or the pilot gets bored waiting and bails.  Or the driver gets tired of the trip and bails.

In order to prevent greifing and hardship like the above, would entail a bit of added coding... so it no longer becomes an easy add, even if it were wanted in the game by a number of players.

Not to mention all the "I need picked up" posts in Country to go along with "I need a gunner" ones.  


Also, the whole scenario is questionable in regards to WWII.  SAR did not come into it's own until Korea and Vietnam.  In WWII, you might be able to hope for a PBY or sub on lifeguard duty to pick up a few pilots int he PTO, but in the ETO, you went down, you had to hope you were over friendly territory, or find the Resistance to help you back to friendly lines, or you went to a POW camp.

Your buddies did not come riding out looking for you in a Jeep, or fly out, to land in a field to pick you up, and bring you back.  You did not risk additional pilots, and especially additional planes, for something like that in WWII.  Back then there were Armies and patrols and checkpoints and sentries and OPs and so forth covering the area on the ground.  Not the kind of thing you joyride through in a jeep.

And as to saving the kills?  You do realize that you retain partial perk points earned for successful bails and ditches, right?  All you loose is full perk credit and bonus for the flight and name in lights, and if you want perk points: get back into the air soonest will help you earn points.... far more than sitting on the ground for a hour pleading over text in country channel for a pick up and making everyone's squelch list will do for you.

And if it's the name in lights you are missing..... learn to land the durned plane!!!

[Spikes]

Pssst.    (.ef)

[475FG Savlan]

Originally posted by tedrbr
I suggest you climb into a jeep in the game and run it across half a sector or even a full sector.... take 2 veh sups for when you roll it to right yourself.   See how long it takes you to make that trip.  Guesstimate how long or how often players will be willing to make such a run.

YOU may not find the idea appealing or fun, but others may enjoy it.
Just as some like to climb to alt, and some play in the mud. As y'all here on the boards are fond to say, its the players 14.95 to spend as he likes, so just cause the idea is unappealing to you dosn't make it implausible or unworthy.

As for driving a full sector....um, don't we have remote spawn points? Plus 90% of action in the MA takes place between the two closest opposing fields, you make it sound like we are crossing the Sahara  Im thinking NHRA quarter mile, you are thinking 24 hrs of Daytona.

Now, imagine if you will, the guy who drives his jeep for an hour, gets to where the pilot is supposed to be down at, rides around looking for the pilot..... only to find out later the pilot was neither shot down nor in that area to begin with.  Or the pilot gets bored waiting and bails.  Or the driver gets tired of the trip and bails.

Anyone who drives for an hour - or waits for said driver - is playing the wrong game  But how many times have ya ejected in the middle of a furball within distance of a ship or field? Id say thats the most likely scenario, and its when something like this could be used, IF YA WANTED to. No one is saying this is how you have to end all sorties, just an option.

Think of this - furball between coastal base & CV. You shoot down a plane. Pilot is in the water, you see a PT boat pick him up. Blast the PT boat and shoot him down again, and his buddy to boot!  I think it would be a hoot.

Not to mention all the "I need picked up" posts in Country to go along with "I need a gunner" ones.  

Yes, you are right, oh my god....the sheer weight of all those words scrolling by in the buffer is sooooo taxing!  We must keep the buffer clear of game related text so we can read all really important conversation that we'd be missing!

Also, the whole scenario is questionable in regards to WWII.  SAR did not come into it's own until Korea and Vietnam.  In WWII, you might be able to hope for a PBY or sub on lifeguard duty to pick up a few pilots int he PTO, but in the ETO, you went down, you had to hope you were over friendly territory, or find the Resistance to help you back to friendly lines, or you went to a POW camp.

I suggest a trip to your local library, or some internet searching before making blanket statements like that.  

From the following link...
http://www.aviationmuseum.net/ais-sea%20resue.htm

Inaugurated as the Marine Craft Section just eleven days after the Royal Air Force itself was founded, it initially provided back-up for the flying boats but it also developed a rescue service which during and after the second world war became the largest in the world. During the war years alone over 13,000 lives were saved by the crews of the high speed rescue launches who faced enemy action and all weathers to uphold their pledge of "The Sea Shall Not Have Them".

The launches were involved in many major actions; at Dunkirk five seaplane tenders were deployed rescuing 500 troops from the beaches; at Dieppe 14 launches were in action three of which were destroyed by enemy action and 93 launches were involved in the supporting maritime landing operations on D Day. Launches also supported operations in the Middle East, Malta and Italy and also in the Far East, India, Burma, Malaya and Ceylon. The launches also carried out clandestine operations in Greece, Turkey and occupied Europe.

Your buddies did not come riding out looking for you in a Jeep, or fly out, to land in a field to pick you up, and bring you back.  You did not risk additional pilots, and especially additional planes, for something like that in WWII.  Back then there were Armies and patrols and checkpoints and sentries and OPs and so forth covering the area on the ground.  Not the kind of thing you joyride through in a jeep.

So, you are saying that if a pilot was known to have ditched along the coast of the English Channel, or even a bit inland, maybe 5-10 miles from a friendly airbase ( be it Allied England or Axis occupied France ) then he was left there - no one went out and checked the wreckage? Guys flying home over his wreckage would fly over him as he waved, and do nothing?

"Where's Bill?"
"Oh, he crash landed about 5 miles from the base - saw his plane, he looked ok, I saw him walking to base'
'hope he gets here soon, his drink is getting warm! LOL!'

Planes, ships, and submarines were risked to save the lives of downed airmen in enemy areas. One of these rescued WW2 pilots became a US president.

Oh, and heres the story of Pierce McKennon, the famous 4th Fighter Group Mustang pilot who landed in a field to pick up a buddy and bring him home, something we would never do in Aces High!

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3901/is_200608/ai_n17182182/pg_3
 

And as to saving the kills?  You do realize that you retain partial perk points earned for successful bails and ditches, right?  All you loose is full perk credit and bonus for the flight and name in lights, and if you want perk points: get back into the air soonest will help you earn points.... far more than sitting on the ground for a hour pleading over text in country channel for a pick up and making everyone's squelch list will do for you.

And if it's the name in lights you are missing..... learn to land the durned plane!!!

Learn to read with comprehension

If you re-read the post, I was referring to the 'name in lights' & point rewards for the JEEP driver, not the pilot. I did mention a small point reward incentive for the pilot who participated, perhaps a little more than just hitting .ef.  

Speaking of names in lights, I think pilots that do field captures ( as well as my proposed jeep drivers ) should get buffer credit - C47 pilots are the unsung heroes of online gaming.  Whether you think of this as a WW2 simulation or just a air/land/sea wargame, the aquisition of territory means more to 'the cause' than someone landing 3 kills in a LA7, and should be recognized as such.

My 4 cents.

[bluenam]

yo i liek that idea bc theres a ponton plane in my boook of ww2 and its 2 engen and its cool so i love that idea i like to be coast guard to

[OOZ662]

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=309358&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

[Ghosth]

Problem is I don't think there is any way you could pick up a bailed pilot, and give him a ride anywhere without him going to the tower first.

You'd have to rebuild the game from scratch, line by line, comepletly redesigning it. Just so you could save someone from having to exit as a chute.

Great Idea, I just don't see it as being feasable or worth the time it would require for what we get out of it.

[=55th=Mike254]

Im in  

I think this is a great idea and im with savlan all the way. Some people may not want to take the time out to go rescue somebody but others may find it fun, and it also adds more realism and a whole new way to play aces high.

[Krusty]

I'm not even going to comment on the "YOU might not like it, others would" comment, because we've discussed that SO many times.

However, it won't work under your reasons.

Once you're down, crashed, shot down, ditched, whatever. You've ended your streak. It means nothing if you get rescued at this point, you won't get your kills in lights, because you were already shot down. The enemy met you, shot you, and just because you lived (say, you scraped a wingtip, dinged your prop, and came to a rest in 1 piece) doesn't negate the fact that the enemy shot you down.

Done. Fin. You're out of the fight, you lost your shot, your "name in lights" is nullified. So if you do request SAR, it won't be for folks to land 5 kills they had.

That would require that word I just used, "land"... Not ditch, crash, bail, die. Land. It's put in there as a basic threshhold. No land? No lights. SAR won't change that.


If there were other reasons, then feel free to make your argument. "To get your name in lights" should never be one of them.

[G0ALY]

Originally posted by Krusty
I'm not even going to comment on the "YOU might not like it, others would" comment, because we've discussed that SO many times.

However, it won't work under your reasons.

Once you're down, crashed, shot down, ditched, whatever. You've ended your streak. It means nothing if you get rescued at this point, you won't get your kills in lights, because you were already shot down. The enemy met you, shot you, and just because you lived (say, you scraped a wingtip, dinged your prop, and came to a rest in 1 piece) doesn't negate the fact that the enemy shot you down.

Done. Fin. You're out of the fight, you lost your shot, your "name in lights" is nullified. So if you do request SAR, it won't be for folks to land 5 kills they had.

That would require that word I just used, "land"... Not ditch, crash, bail, die. Land. It's put in there as a basic threshhold. No land? No lights. SAR won't change that.

 
As you said, SAR won’t change that… That is, it won't change it the way the game is played right now.

But as we know, game play is subject to change. What’s keeping us from letting this be included?

I could see the “Name in lights” for both the rescuer and downed pilot. It could be as simple as, “Skuzzy successfully rescued Krusty with 3 kills.”

There you go. Two players get credit. Perhaps the perks could be divided…?

There are plenty of examples of credit being given to real life pilots after they were rescued. The fact that an enemy shot them down does not negate their accomplishments.


An example:
On April 7, 1943, on his first combat mission, Swett both became an ace and was awarded the Medal of Honor.
His first mission was as a division leader on a combat air patrol over the Russell Islands early on the morning of April 7 in expectation of a large Japanese air attack. Landing to refuel, the four plane division of F4F Wildcats he was leading was scrambled after other aircraft reported 150 planes approaching Ironbottom Sound, and intercepted a large formation of Japanese Aichi D3A dive bombers attacking Tulagi harbor.
When the fight became a general melee, Swett pursued three Vals diving on the harbor. After shooting down two, and while taken under fire from the rear gunner of the third, the left wing of his F4F was holed by U.S. antiaircraft fire directed at the Japanese. Despite this he shot down the third Val and turned toward a second formation of six Vals leaving the area.
Swett repeatly attacked the line of dive bombers, downing each in turn with short bursts. He brought down four and was attacking a fifth when his ammunition was depleted and he had his cockpit shot up by return fire. Wounded, he decided to ditch his damaged fighter off Florida Island. Though initially trapped in his cockpit, Swett extricated himself and was subsequently rescued in Tulagi harbor after crash-landing his Wildcat. This feat made the 22-year old Marine aviator an ace on his first combat mission.

-----------------------------------------------

I understand that not all players would want to fly rescue missions, or wait to be rescued. But some would. So what is the harm in giving them this option?

[Krusty]

You're down. You lost your plane. You don't deserve your name in lights.


For the same reason you don't get your name in lights if you land at an enemy field. The same reason you don't get your name in lights if you land off the runway.


You had your chance. Hitech has said that you only get your name in lights if you land on the runway because you have to draw the line somewhere, and "on the runway" is the minimum level.


So it's all fine and dandy to rescue folks. But it ought to be like delivering supplies: silent and unannounced.



If you need a ride back to your field, you've lost any kills you earned, simple as that. They're still on your stats, though (as always).