Author Topic: "Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful  (Read 1500 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2007, 09:18:35 PM »
The Airbus KC-30 product fits the tanker program differently from the Boeing KC-767 product.

The Airbus is a bigger plane, and can carry more cargo along with fuel but is more expensive per copy. The KC-30 has a maximum fuel capacity of over 246,000 pounds. Even with a full fuel load, the aircraft has the capacity to carry 43 metric tons of cargo. The aircraft could also carry up to 272 passengers instead.


The KC-767 can be in more places at one time because it's lower price per copy allows more copies to be purchased.  It can be based closer to the front because smaller size allows basing at smaller airfields. The 767 carries about the same fuel payload as the KC-135 (161,000 pounds without auxiliary fuel tanks, or 202,000 pounds with auxiliary fuel tanks). Like the A330, it can also carry passengers and cargo at the same time.

What is better depends on the mission.  If one were clearly better, there would not be the need for a competition.
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Offline Ripsnort

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2007, 09:30:36 PM »
Actually Boeing recently upgraded to exceed the pounds of fuel that the KC-30 can carry.  Competition is a great thing, when you're the consumer. :)

Offline Holden McGroin

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2007, 09:39:17 PM »
How did they do that?

GW 767 : 390,000 lbs

GW 330 : 480,000 lbs ...

the 330 is a much bigger airframe: 40 ft more wingspan, 30 ft longer.
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Offline FrodeMk3

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2007, 10:07:30 PM »
Anyway, about the laser...

A MODIFIED Boeing 747 designed to be part of an emerging US antimissile shield has successfully completed an important flight test, the Pentagon's Missile Defence Agency and Boeing said today.

To simulate an intercept, the prototype Airborne Laser actively tracked an airborne target, compensated for atmospheric turbulence and fired a "surrogate" for a missile-zapping high-energy laser, they said.

"We have now demonstrated most of the steps needed for the Airborne Laser to engage a threat missile and deliver precise and lethal effects against it," said Pat Shanahan, a vice president at Boeing, the prime contractor.

Speed of light

Air Force Lieutenant Colonel John Daniels, the Pentagon's program manager, said the test on Saturday marked an historic day for "directed-energy" weapons firing at the speed of light, or 186,000 miles per second.

"This will fundamentally change the way we engage and destroy fleeting targets," he said.

The airborne laser is to be the first warplane relying entirely on a directed energy device as a weapon. It is designed to destroy an enemy ballistic missile shortly after it is launched, in the "boost phase" of its flight path.

The program will have cost about $US5 billion ($5.75 billion) from its inception in the early 1990s through a scheduled test intercept test of a mock enemy missile in August 2009, Lt-Col Daniels said.

The modified Boeing 747-400F took off from Edwards Air Force Base, California. It used its infrared sensors and a tracking laser to zero in on a "target board" on an Air Force aircraft, Boeing said.

Passive to active tracking

The aircraft fired the tracking laser at the target aircraft, dubbed Big Crow, for the first time on March 15. The test on Friday demonstrated an ability to go from passive tracking of a simulated missile engine "plume" to active tracking, Boeing said.

In addition, the Lockheed Martin Corp. beam control and fire control system was used to offset atmospheric turbulence in conjunction with the active tracking and firing of the device standing in for the chemical oxygen-iodine laser, the company said.

Engineers will start installing the actual high-energy laser, built by Northrop Grumman Corp, in coming months to prepare for the intercept test.
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It is designed to destroy an enemy ballistic missile shortly after it is launched
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The trick is, is being in the right country that wants to toss a nuke at you, at the right time, eh???

I thought this thing was designed to shoot down inbound, not outbound, rockets?

Offline Sabre

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2007, 01:19:20 PM »
The Airbus offering did not fit the Air Force's requirements...period.  Tankers are assets referred to as "high-demand, low density".  It does no good to have two aircraft with the X-amount of fuel when you need to support three simultainious/near-simultainious ops.  Versatility in supporting  these type of hi-tempo operations was the requirement Airbus was unable to support.  Don't buy a luxury liner if a Liberty ship will do the job.

As has already been noted, those Boeing personnel involved in the tanker program scandal were punished, and significant changes made throughout Boeing to try to insure it doesn't happen again.  Boeing also paid healthy fines as well.  As also noted, the ABL is not just a Boeing program, but is divided amoung quite a few aerospace companies.

FrodeMk3 said: "I thought this thing was designed to shoot down inbound, not outbound, rockets?"

The operational concept for missile defense is multi-tiered.  The easiest time to destroy an ICBM is in the boost phase.  That's what the ABL is for.  It orbits in-theater, just over the boarder for example, and tries to knock the missile down during boost.  Effective range is 100-miles plus, if I recall from unclassified sources.  If it does not succeed, than terminal defense takes over (the US "Missile Shield" of ground-based interceptors and ship-based interceptors).  Hope that clears it up.
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Offline Reschke

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2007, 01:39:03 PM »
Sabre,

I did not know that they had passed on the Airbus tanker option just yet. They are reporting it here that the possibility of adding in the production facility down in Mobile hasn't been locked in but they are still in the evaluation phase.
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Offline Choocha

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« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2007, 02:29:36 PM »
See Rules #4, #5
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 06:45:19 AM by Skuzzy »

Offline DREDIOCK

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2007, 02:35:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Facts.....



Data......

Please provide them.


Choocha,

I gotta stand with Rip on this.

If your going to spew out words you claim to be facts here.
 You'd do well to provide Data and facts  and  actual sources if you expect anyone to take you seriously.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 03:20:53 PM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline Elfie

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2007, 02:46:58 PM »
Quote
The 747 must be 100 miles from the launch point. BOY THATS REAL PRACTICAL. All ARE PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED NOW.


The range of the laser appears to be 100 miles, that doesn't mean the 747 MUST be 100 miles from the launch point.....cornbread eatter!!  :D
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Offline Sabre

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2007, 03:18:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Reschke
Sabre,

I did not know that they had passed on the Airbus tanker option just yet. They are reporting it here that the possibility of adding in the production facility down in Mobile hasn't been locked in but they are still in the evaluation phase.


Airbus has in fact been lobbying for the Air Force to re-evalute their requirements.  However, I don't see it happening.  I'm not sure why some are so hostile to Boeing, unless they're just America haters:p .  They have, and continue to provide excellent products and services to my country and many countries around the world.  Sounds a bit like sour grapes over the A380 debacle:cry .  Seriously, I admire Airbus in many ways, but having flown on aircraft by both countries, and talked to pilots who have flown both, I believe Boeing builds the superior products.  They also build many other excellent products (GPS satellites, many commercial satellites) and other services (I've seen SeaLaunch up close, and it's a friggin' awsome system).  Like any company, there are ups and down, good products and not so good.  However, the company stock has been on a steady climb since the low of 9/11, and the 787 is selling like hot cakes.  You be the judge.
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Offline Ripsnort

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2007, 04:24:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Choocha See Rules #4, #5[/B]


Ah, well, now we get to the bottom of his troll rant....:rolleyes:
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 06:51:37 AM by Skuzzy »

Offline Yeager

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2007, 04:32:51 PM »
See Rules #4, #5
====
Nothing tastes as good as fresh hot cornbread just out of the oven, topped with butter and strawberry jam.  

As far as the ABL, keep developing the technology.  Sure beats just sitting there, unless of course we are sitting there, eating fresh hot cornbread just out of the oven, topped with butter and strawberry jam :D
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 06:51:53 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline bj229r

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« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2007, 04:38:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Choocha
See Rules #4, #5


3rd attempt, no links....just like arguing with RPM ,MT and Crockett:D
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 06:52:12 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Yeager

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2007, 05:16:14 PM »
See Rules #4, #5
====
all OUR problems.

Im not too picky about speeling but please try and use the correct WORD.

m'k ?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 06:52:27 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Bodhi

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"Big Crow" Airborne 747 laser successful
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2007, 05:36:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Choocha
See Rules #4, #5



Airbus products are markedly inferior to Boeing products IMHO.  But, hey, don't mind me, I was a line mechanic for Delta back when we had all the foreign contracts coming into MCO, which meant we worked a lot of Airbus garbage.  Northrop Grumman partnering with Airbus is just plain sick in my eyes.

As for the 747 ABM defense system, 100 miles is a long way for a theater based defense weapon.  IE. Think the mideast.  It was never intended to be flying race tracks around the US just waiting for a MIRV to come splashing through the atmosphere.  It's true intent are weapons like the SCUD, North Korean Taepodong II and Iranian Shahab-4.  Thinking along those lines, a couple of these defensive weapons deployed off the coasts of North Korea, border of Iran, and most other middle eastern countries borders or coasts and you very quickly have the ability to shut down the risk of such a rogue state launching a Chemical, Nuclear, or Conventional Attack with ICBM or even Theater based Missiles.

As for ABM technology being a sham, apparently you did not witness a Patriot battery engaging Scud Missiles during the Gulf War?  While not 100% accurate, they saved many Israeli and Coalition lives.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 06:52:46 AM by Skuzzy »
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