"A War We Just Might Win"

[Dowding]

After we give it to GW, maybe we should give it to the muslims that are quite successfully colonizing the UK.

UK religion demographics:

Christian 42,079,000 71.6%
Muslim 1,591,000 2.7%
Hindu 559,000 1.0%
Sikh 336,000 0.6%
Jewish 267,000 0.5%
Buddhist 152,000 0.3%
Other religion 179,000 0.3%
Not stated 4,289,000 7.3%
No religion 9,104,000 15.5%
Total religious 45,163,000 76.8%

Yes, we are swarming with Muslims.

[Hazzer]

TE Lawrence on the Turkish occupation of Iraq:
   
 "Rebellions can be made by 2 per cent active and 98 per cent passively sympathetic"

                  or this, on the same occupation in1914/18 War.

       The Turks "would have need of a fortified post every four square miles, and a post could not be less than 20 men. The Turks would need 600,000 men to meet the combined ill wills of all the local Arab people. They had 100,000 men available."  Sound familiar?

                  there's lots more,and it makes chilling reading.


                   See you at the victory parade.

[Sabre]

Originally posted by crockett
You ever think it might be because the media was "used" by this admin as part of the lie to get us into the war in the first place? Had this admistration been  truthful from the start, maybe they would hold better light in the mainstream media. Much less with the American people and the world.

You lie then you get treated as a lier.

Exactly how was the administration not truthful in the lead up to the war, and how did the Bush Administration manipulate the press into supporting the "lies" you speak of?

[cpxxx]

On August 1 , 'Operation Banner' came to an end. At 38 years it was the British army's longest campaign to date. They arrived in Northern Ireland in 1969 for what they thought were a few weeks. This week they finally returned to barracks.  They never won the war but they didn't lose either. In the end the politicians and the people made them redundant.
At the moment they are involved in another campaign: 'Operation Telic' in Iraq. Going four years now and no sign of it ending.

Just a warning as to what can happen. Read what tedrbr and hazzer says. Even if Al Qaeda evaporated in the morning. The Iraqis or more to the point the tribalism inherent in that area will keep the pot stirred. It has to be solved politically. The US army cannot do that.

If Petraeus is the man, everyone says he is, then he knows that and will spell it out in September. The US military can keep a lid on it for years just like the British in Northern Ireland but can never make it go away.

The war cannot be won militarily alone.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by crockett
You ever think it might be because the media was "used" by this admin as part of the lie to get us into the war in the first place? Had this admistration been  truthful from the start, maybe they would hold better light in the mainstream media. Much less with the American people and the world.

You lie then you get treated as a lier.

Hold a better light in the mainstream media, which in itself is full of liars, and panic mongers?

Do you do stand up?

[RedTop]

Originally posted by tedrbr
snip......Result: a weak, ineffective, United States government composed of compromise and power plays with numerous factions and rife with corruption.

fixed......

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Sabre
Exactly how was the administration not truthful in the lead up to the war, and how did the Bush Administration manipulate the press into supporting the "lies" you speak of?

Dear god, countless examples have been give countless times on this bbs.  But people you will constantly pretend they haven't been.

[DoctorYO]

Hazzer,

Dont waste your breath...  I tried to explain the history of the region before the Iraq War and its comparison to the WW1, and by the way the British were not colony building.. if not for the assyrians they would have lost control immediately.  And thats well documented.

At the time the people on these boards called me liar, terror lover etc..  their words ring especially hollow with that taste of crow in their mouth.. not naming any names...  our favorite war college edumicated tanker. and friends..

4 years later as you can see on TV, the internet, etc..  ham radio  etc..  that Iraq is in shambles...  just as i predicted.  I saw the the rag tag coalition for what it was, the numbers on the ground, and said we are insane for doing this.. on this level...  pathetic planning equals pathetic results...

Now...

Everything is down..  electricity is down...  Roads are down... schools are down...  sacred sites are destroyed.  If thats winning your right, Scorched earth warfare. You destroyed the whole freaking county..  Victory...  Pyyric but victory...  

now the 4th gen powder keg is primed...   and a northern turkman invasion might just set the keg off..  history repeating itself.. (craven turks did the same thing when the stability fell last time... but who reads their history, history smistory...)

and for those who say we are winning..  at a 1/20 success rate per IED (and thats conservative) at 50$ per IED vs the cost of 1-3 x 200000 sgli, 200000 worth of hummer, logistics and training or after care for survivors/dead, 500000-3000000 (thats conservative also) hell thats a couple of million vs 2000$

Any military planner who calls that winning should be elightened to their ignorance Stalin style..

Counter Insurgency is a BS operation...   Armies are not designed to handle that on a 4th gen battlefield...  you people are trying to force a square into a circle...

But what do I know...  Ive only called this war to a T.. (correct) said jessica lynch was a sham.. (correct right out of her own mouth...  she has my respect..at the time tanker and friends accused me of Jealousy.. woot...), the freaking tillman case of fraticide.. (correct on that one too..)  no matter how unpopular...

Rebuttal...   trust me you have none...  

When you go against every system of SUN TZU on the field of battle and expect to win..  you are sadly mistaken.. and will be left wanting...

Read your history / Smistory  for examples..


DoctorYo

[crockett]

Originally posted by Sabre
Exactly how was the administration not truthful in the lead up to the war, and how did the Bush Administration manipulate the press into supporting the "lies" you speak of?

Really, it's not worth the time to explain to you as you must be wearing your "Republican blinders" if still don't understand what this admin did to mislead this nation into a war with Iraq.

If you can't see it by now, then nothing I say on a message board will ever change your mind. However I like to think everyone has a brain and can use it..

So watch this vid maybe not the best on the subject but it's short and sweet and provides the info I guess you want to ignore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7xyd_IRgGs

Nice background music regardless..

[Elfie]

Really, it's not worth the time to explain to you as you must be wearing your "Republican blinders" if still don't understand what this admin did to mislead this nation into a war with Iraq.

Really, as Maverick said in another thread. There is no proof that will hold up in a court of law to support this. All we have is allegations. You choose to believe the allegations, some of us choose to wait for further evidence.

You too have your blinders on, they are just a different type.

[crockett]

Originally posted by Elfie
Really, as Maverick said in another thread. There is no proof that will hold up in a court of law to support this. All we have is allegations. You choose to believe the allegations, some of us choose to wait for further evidence.

You too have your blinders on, they are just a different type.

I guess you are still waiting for the WMD's to be found.. btw I assume you missed the video I posted above? Seems like all the proof in the world that is needed is in that simple 3:29 video.

If their own words aren't enough proof for you, then you wont ever accept
 any proof given to you. So it's a useless battle much like Iraq is today.

[Elfie]

I guess you are still waiting for the WMD's to be found.. btw I assume you missed the video I posted above?

Your allegation is that the Bush administration intentionally misled the American people. Your video links don't support that. You see what you wish to see.

Did our intelligence services think there was WMD's prior to our invasion? Yes.

Did that intel turn out to be inaccurate? Yes.

Does this constitute intentional misleading? No.

Have I seen the CIA report on what quantities and types of WMD's Iraq was believed to have had? Yes. (Interesting to note that those items were verified as having existed by UN weapons inspectors at one time yet some of those items like the 1.5 tons of VX gas have yet to be accounted for, either verification of it being destroyed or the gas itself being found.)

Until I see actual proof of intentional misleading I'm not going to jump on the *Bush lied about the reasons for the war* bandwagon.

[john9001]

did saddam bury his WMD is the desert along with his MIG fighters and "weather balloon trucks", yes.  It's a big desert.

What about the convoy of soviet trucks that went to Syria just before the invasion?

[crockett]

Originally posted by Elfie
Your allegation is that the Bush administration intentionally misled the American people. Your video links don't support that. You see what you wish to see.

Did our intelligence services think there was WMD's prior to our invasion? Yes.

Did that intel turn out to be inaccurate? Yes.

Does this constitute intentional misleading? No.

Have I seen the CIA report on what quantities and types of WMD's Iraq was believed to have had? Yes. (Interesting to note that those items were verified as having existed by UN weapons inspectors at one time yet some of those items like the 1.5 tons of VX gas have yet to be accounted for, either verification of it being destroyed or the gas itself being found.)

Until I see actual proof of intentional misleading I'm not going to jump on the *Bush lied about the reasons for the war* bandwagon.

right...

If you did any research for your self on the Chemical weapons we "believed" he "may" of had. You would know that their "shelf life" had far passed their usefulness.

See I guess that's the difference between you and me. I did my own research. I didn't listen to what some politician or some expert tried to feed me.

I looked up the info on the weapons Iraq was suspected of having prior to the war in Iraq. Pretty much all of it had a extreemly limited shelf life and being we knew he didn't have the capacity to make more, well I knew he wasn't a threat.

I also had already looked up the info on the Aluminum rods that our president used in his go to war speech. That info was on the net prior to his speech and I couldn't believe he tried to sell it to the American people..

You know the whole Valerie Plaime thing.. If you actually did your own research you would have seen the same things I have seen. Instead of just accepting what you wanted to hear.

[crockett]

Originally posted by john9001
did saddam bury his WMD is the desert along with his MIG fighters and "weather balloon trucks", yes.  It's a big desert.

What about the convoy of soviet trucks that went to Syria just before the invasion?

You can't tell me you actually think that Saddam, would give Syria his WMD's for safe keeping..