make destroyers worth something

[sullie363]

Since airbases were given a boost in their manable guns, why not do the same for CV groups?  Perhaps make a 40mm available or a single 5" for the destroyers.  I mean those 20mm cannons currently available really only come in handy after the CV and cruiser have been sunk and you can maybe pick off a couple guys trying to blast PTs.

[EagleDNY]

Given that the purpose of the CV's escorts in the game is to provide some AA defense, having them mount 20mms is pretty worthless - especially since they are actually outgunned by PT boats mounting single 40mm guns!

A destroyer update would be a good way to increase the CV groups AAA capability.  Replacing the 20mm gun tubs with twin or quad 40mm mounts would be a great idea.  Adding Twin 5" mannable turrets fore and aft would be an even better idea.  Both of these armament sets were readily available on many different classes of US Destroyers, which we can assume would be escorting the Essex class carrier group.  

Given that both twin 5" turrets and quad 40mm mounts are already modeled on the CV, a "cut and paste" could probably be done to give the modelers a bit easier time of it

EagleDNY
$.02

[Tiger]

Wow, more firepower...

I'm for this under one condition... increase mannable firepower but eliminate auto-ack.

[humble]

If you actually modeled a single destroyer correctly...

5in guns, 40mm/20mm ack, torpedo's....

It would make a great addition as an independent "vehicle" to spawn from a port. No clue how you'd handle perkies...but how about a pack of destroyers chasing your CV down or attacking another port:)....

[Meatwad]

Originally posted by humble
If you actually modeled a single destroyer correctly...

5in guns, 40mm/20mm ack, torpedo's....

It would make a great addition as an independent "vehicle" to spawn from a port. No clue how you'd handle perkies...but how about a pack of destroyers chasing your CV down or attacking another port:)....

MMMM sea based fun

[EagleDNY]

Originally posted by humble
If you actually modeled a single destroyer correctly...

5in guns, 40mm/20mm ack, torpedo's....

It would make a great addition as an independent "vehicle" to spawn from a port. No clue how you'd handle perkies...but how about a pack of destroyers chasing your CV down or attacking another port:)....

Late in the war, the USN refits to a lot of the destroyer types were to remove the torpedo tubes in favor of more AAA.  They had destroyers with as many as 14 x 40mm mounts, plus 5" and 20mm mounts.  If we had destroyers with torpedo tubes, they'd be mounting the Mk.17 (16,000 yards range @ 50 knots) torpedoes, which could make life difficult for a CV group.

The way I understand it, ship groups are treated as airfields for purposes of the code.  If a CV group is an airbase, then a surface group would essentially be a vehicle-base.  What I could see is having a port spawn both a CV group and a surface group of cruisers and destroyers (renumber the maps so that port 10 spawns CV 11 and SG 12).  The surface group could consist of 2 cruisers and 4-8 destroyers, and could be set to only respawn at the port if ALL ships were destroyed.  This setting would let the surface group "replenish at sea", and would make it necessary for air attacks to kill all the destroyers as well.  

An 'independent' spawnable destroyer would be hamstrung a bit being as you can only have 2 people in a vehicle.  There would be no auto-ack, so you would be totally dependent upon the gunnery skills of 2 people to stay alive.  Further, it would vanish if the spawning player quit or got disco'ed.  It would be interesting as a sort of "super PT", but there would be no way it could catch a fleeing CV group, and the most that could be manned would be 2 x 5" mounts or 2 x quad 40mm mounts.  

Regardless of whether we get a surface group, or independently spawnable destoyer type, I think the updating of destroyers in the CV groups would be  a good idea.  Adding fore and aft twin 5" mannable turrets and port and starboard mannable quad 40mm mounts would make the destroyers really useful to the CV group.  As they are now, destroyers are a waste and can be pretty much ignored - if they had serious AAA capabilities, they might also be useful in stopping the lanc-stuka effect.

EagleDNY
$.02

[Sabre]

Some interesting ideas, Eagle.  The destroyer in the game actually isn't a true destroyer but a destroyer escort, or DE (sometimes referred to as a submarine chaser).  They were built as convoy escorts, and in real life did not have the speed to keep up with the fleet carriers.  I would like to see a true destroyer, with three to five dual 5-inch gun turrets, multiple AAA and torpedo tubes.  This would replace the DE in fleets.

The current DE model could then be used as a "super-PT" as has been suggested.  Gun control would be modeled as on a bomber, with a player controlling multiple guns, and allowing one additional player to act as a dedicated gunner.  Add a torp launcher that could be aimed like a turret.  Obviously this would be a perked ride, using boat and GV perks.  It would spawn like a PT, but only from ports.  When subs are eventually added, it could become the player-controlled ASW platform.

[EagleDNY]

What we are probably looking for would be the Sumner or Gearing class of destoyers - they had 2 twin 5" turrets forward and 1 aft.  The addition of 12 to 18 twin 5" turrets in a CV group (4-6 destroyers worth) would make it a pretty formidable increase in AAA for the group, and might actually be able to stop a set of lanc-stukas.  

Sumners and Gearings had a lot of different mods as they came into service.  I'm not sure what they mounted as far as 20mm and 40mm ack, as it changed a lot as the classes evolved.  The later 1944/45 models were designed as radar pickets, so they tended to lose the torpedo tubes in favor of more AAA to deal with the kamikaze threat (which sounds JUST like what we need vs the kamikaze lanc).

Edit: I found additional data -
Gearing class DDs, as designed mounted 12 x 40mm guns (2 quad and 2 double 40mm mounts), plus 11 x 20mm single mounts.

In July 45, the Gearing class DD Kenneth D. Bailey was launched modified with additional AA - one 5 tube torpedo launcher was removed in favor of an additional quad 40mm mount (16 40mms total), and she was given 10 x twin 20mm mounts instead of the 11 single 20mm mounts (20 x 20mm total).

Now THAT is some formidable AAA defense on a destroyer.  Imagine 4-6 of these providing cover for your CV...

EagleDNY
$.02