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Author Topic: Burning Salt Water  (Read 766 times)

Offline xNOVAx

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Burning Salt Water
« on: September 11, 2007, 06:27:30 PM »
If this is true, this is huge.. Peroid..

http://green.yahoo.com/index.php?q=node/1570

Thoughts?:O
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2007, 06:38:00 PM »
Thoughts?  I think a review of the laws of thermodynamics is in order for all, including the reporter that neglected to ask how much energy is expended by the RF device that does the splitting.

It's just a roundabout way, I suspect, for splitting the O2 and H2 out of water and burning it.  

900x as much energy input as output, maybe?  1000x?  More?
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Offline xNOVAx

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Burning Salt Water
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2007, 06:53:13 PM »
Yeah that is true, but if by some off chance the RF device takes less energy than the burning hydrogen produces, we have our next fuel.. Long shot, but who knows..
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 06:55:09 PM »
If by some off chance electrolysis takes less energy to seperate O2 and H2 than it produces, then that would be big too.

Oh, but it doesn't.
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Offline Hornet33

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Burning Salt Water
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2007, 07:07:51 PM »
A frequecy generator doesn't use that much power. If used plenty of them in my career for tuning radios and such, some that go all the way up into the high gigahertz range and they all plugged into a 110 outlet.

That's the nice thing about using a frequency to split the molecules. You don't need alot of power to do it, just the right frequency.

Also you'll notice that the guy who figured it out was using a frequecy generator designed for medical purposes. Most of that equipment is designed to run off of standard electrical power. Hell a CAT scan machine only requires a 220 outlet now a days.

The amount of power required to do this could probably be brought well under the amount of power released.

Imagine an engine that uses a freq gen instead of spark plugs to generate hydrogen for cumbustion. Once the engine is started the alternator would be able to power the freq gen.

I really think these guys may be on to something here. The principle they've discovered is way beyond electrolosis.
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Offline lasersailor184

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Burning Salt Water
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2007, 07:14:42 PM »
Voltage and amperage are completely different.  The Cat Scan machine can run on a 220 volt service, however that is no indication of how much power it actually uses.  Only that someone adapted it to 220 volt service.


Frequency generators might not require much power, but that doesn't mean the energy off of burning salt water will be strong.  As Chairboy said, the input energy will ALWAYS be more then the output.
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Offline xNOVAx

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Burning Salt Water
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2007, 07:18:00 PM »
I saw in another forum someone speculating that the H+ atoms in the water from the desolved salts are being released and that's what is burning, not necessairly splitting the H-O bonds?

http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tech&Number=784231&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=
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Offline majic

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Burning Salt Water
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2007, 07:20:53 PM »
Others could probably explain this better than I can, but:

Think about what is happening here.  The water is split into the fuel components- Hydrogen and Oxygen.  The burning takes those two components and puts them back together again- H2O.  There is no way you get more energy out than you put in.

Edit: that of course assumes the post above me is wrong.  ;)
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Offline Swoop

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Burning Salt Water
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2007, 07:27:04 PM »
Er....what Majic?


I'm no chemist, or physisist......but does burning oxygen and hydrogen together produce water?


The idea that burning something to produce water doesn't sound right at all.

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Offline Gunthr

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Burning Salt Water
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2007, 07:36:02 PM »
the thing about burning salt water is...

it isn't oil, and we have it in superabundance.   im cautiously geeked about this.
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Offline Thrawn

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Burning Salt Water
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2007, 07:36:09 PM »
Electrolysis

Electricity ==> Water ==>  O and H


This thing

Electricity ==> RF generator ==> Water ==>  O and H


Which do you think is more efficient?
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Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2007, 07:36:11 PM »
Uhh yeah majic I'm pretty sure self-extinguishing airships are not gonna happen:

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Offline majic

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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2007, 07:45:13 PM »
"Hydrogen combustion produces only water. When pure hydrogen is burned in pure oxygen, only pure water is produced. Granted, that’s an ideal scenario, which doesn’t occur outside of laboratories and the space shuttle. In any case, when a hydrogen engine burns, it actually cleans the ambient air, by completing combustion of the unburned hydrocarbons that surround us. Compared with the toxic compounds (carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, and hydrogen sulfide) produced by petroleum fuels, the products of hydrogen burning are much safer."

From:  http://hydrogennow.org/Facts/Safety.htm

It even has the same pretty picture you posted Vulcan.  :)

Burning hydrogen and oxygen produces water vapor.  Of course it won't put itself out any more than any other byproduct of combustion (which rise away with the heat) would.
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Offline Gunthr

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Burning Salt Water
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2007, 07:49:38 PM »
Quote
Electrolysis

Electricity ==> Water ==> O and H


This thing

Electricity ==> RF generator ==> Water ==> O and H


Which do you think is more efficient? -Thrawn


I don't know.  Wouldn't the answer depend on how much electricity is ultimately required for each reaction - combined with the actual output of usable energy - minus the energy cost of transferring that energy to the drive wheels for - each method?  

This discovery may also be just waiting on further development of other technology in order to implement.  Maybe the radio waves generated can be used again and again? Maybe the O2 can be burnt with the H as a multiplier?  

Hopefully far better brains than mine will be on this.
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Offline Chairboy

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Burning Salt Water
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2007, 07:54:59 PM »
Vulcan, Swoop, y'all might want to bone up on your science too.
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