English for beginners...

[DREDIOCK]

The only one of these so call "slurs" I can even agree as being offensive is the "N" word.
And that is because by its very definition as used to be found in the dictionary is offensive.

The definition is changed now from every dictionary I look in.
but when I was a kid I looked it up and it was then defined as . "A dirty,filthy disgusting person"

Of course it originates from the word "negro" which in Spanish means "black"

the only other one I would be able to agree with is calling anyone who is German a Nazi

For obvious reasons

The others. Well get over it. The world isn't going to fall apart because someone called you a name.or referred to an abbreviated  word.

We've become ENTIRELY overthenthitive about what "offends" us.

Im a mostly white and white looking guy with a Spanish last name.(Mendez)
I grew up in an area that was predominantly black and Hispanic.
Trust me. I didn't go over well with any of these groups and got it from all sides.
The blacks and Hispanics because I was obviously white. And the whites because of my Spanish last name.

I've been called every name in the book from Spic and switchblade  to honky,White cracker.. you name it . I've been called it.
And I've had to deal with the injustices that came with it. From being ganged up on and beaten bloody for no other reason then being white. Or because of my last name. To being denied work because as the interviewer said "The owner doesn't like Puerto Ricans" Forget the fact I'm not even Puerto Rican. It was the Spanish last name
To as a teen having girls not go out with me. Or break up with me because their parents or brothers didn't want them going out with a spic.

So lets just say when it comes to slurs and discrimination I know what the hell Im talking about. Because unlike most of you . I've lived it.

I find it offensive that some of you find it offensive because they were referred to. or somebody used an abbreviated or slang word (the N word not withstanding)
So what. Get over it. there are more important things in the world to worry about.
The sun will still rise on the morrow I promise.
If people put in 1/1,000 as much energy into being offended at things worth being offended over as they do about words. The world would be a much better and different place.

The ONLY reason any of these words are offensive is because we give them the power to be by being offended.
Cease being offended or feeling disrespected over then and you take away ALL their power.

Now I am sure that in the majority of cases when someone refers to a "Jap" plane they are simply abbreviating the word Japaneese.
Because, well lets face it. Jap is alot easier to type then Japanese. Particularly in game.
And at the very most they do not mean it in a derogatory way anyway.

And yanno what.
If you happen to be Japanese and someone calls you a Jap
Or British and someone calls you a Brit. Or American and someone calls you a Yank. Or are black and someone calls you a "negro" (Remember, Spanish translation and not to be mistaken for the other N word)
Or like me. Part Spanish and someone calls you a spic

Get over it. Because. Well, you are!
 Shrug your shoulders and say "So what."
By doing that you take away all the power of the word to be offensive.

Trust me. its a hell of alot better then crying like a child because (insert whiney tone here) "They called me a name."

Call me any damn racial or ethnic thing you like. Odds are much better then average all you will get a "so?"
Doesn't offend me.
More important things to legitimately be offended over.
And someone being called a racial name isn't legitimate.
9/11 was a legitimate reason to be offended.
Kick me in he groin and I'll be offended.
Starving children is a legitimate reason.
But name calling?
Bah.
I've moved beyond such nonsense. And as a result I am stronger and have plenty enough self esteem to not be offended or even bothered by such silliness.
If your bothered then you really need to look at yourself and your own weaknesses

Most cases here nobody is intentionally trying to offend anyone. And when they are its usually pretty obvious by the words that are accompanying it.

So unless it is obvious. Don't sweat it..

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Now I am sure that in the majority of cases when someone refers to a "Jap" plane they are simply abbreviating the word Japaneese.
Because, well lets face it. Jap is alot easier to type then Japanese. Particularly in game.
And at the very most they do not mean it in a derogatory way anyway.

Now I am sure that in the majority of cases when someone refers to a "DICK" they are simply abbreviating the word DREDIOCK.
Because, well lets face it, DICK is a lot easier to type than DREDIOCK. Particularly in game.
And at the very most they do not mean it in a derogatory way anyway.

[dtango]

Touche bighorn .

============================
I absolutely cannot believe some of the ridiculous statements being made by some here.  The lengths that one would go to defend why a word is not offensive is ridiculous.

If you use the term and you aren't associated with that people group you use the term about then you have no vote on whether that term is offensive or not.

In the case of "Jap", it is offensive to Japanese-Americans.  There's no question about that.  There's a history of the usage of the term in a derogatory manner and that legacy remains for Japanese-Americans.

From the Japanese American Veterans Association:
http://www.javadc.org/Press%20Release-8-13-04%20Tanamachi,%20Sandra-.doc

From the Japanese American Citizens League (one of the oldest civil rights orgs in the USA):
http://www.jacl.org/antihate/WordsFlyer.pdf

From the South Florida Sun-Sentinel:
http://www.modelminority.com/printout292.html

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[Vudak]

Nice post, Dred, unfortunately you're now an ignorant ******* for believing in the merits of tough skin.

(Something tells me you aren't going to sweat it )

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Now I am sure that in the majority of cases when someone refers to a "DICK" they are simply abbreviating the word DREDIOCK.
Because, well lets face it, DICK is a lot easier to type than DREDIOCK. Particularly in game.
And at the very most they do not mean it in a derogatory way anyway.

Congratulations. You're now trying to be offensive and insulting, while those you attack aren't. You have lost the high ground.

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
You're now trying to be offensive and insulting, while those you attack aren't.  

Exactly. That's the whole point.
Just because some words don't offend us, doesn't mean it won't offend others.

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Not quite. Because of past usage (context) it is offensive word no matter in what context it is used today. It may take few generations more before it is acceptable again.

To understand that better you'd have to go back to 19th century when Asian people (mainly Chinese and Japanese) were brought in US as cheap labor to build railroads and work on the farms.
In the West white americans were blaming them for their economic misery and anti-asian movements started (using inferior race card) and from then on the things got worse.
War started in Europe, due to German-Japanese alignment, curfew was imposed on all Japanese-Americans, they were banned from universities (so they couldn't learn German and spy for them) and after Pearl Harbor they ended in internment camps.

The quote by famous war correspondent Ernie Pyle describes American sentiment very accurately:
"In Europe, we felt that our enemies, horrible and deadly as they were, were still people, but out here, I soon gathered that the Japanese were looked upon as something subhuman and repulsive; the way some people feel about cockroaches and mice."

I think that half of a history lesson is a one sided point of view. You quoted what EP wrote however you never mention the fact that the Japanese military looked on captured soldiers and flyers as subhuman because they never should have allowed themselves to be taken alive. Many U.S. downed flyers were killed out of hand. The only thing they didn't know was when they would die. Many flyers were used for bayonet practice. There are always two sides to a story. To tell one side of it is to attempt to persuade someone to your point of view despite facts. However, this is not the place to discuss it.

[JensK]

Originally posted by DamnedRen
I think that half of a history lesson is a one sided point of view. You quoted what EP wrote however you never mention the fact that the Japanese military looked on captured soldiers and flyers as subhuman because they never should have allowed themselves to be taken alive. Many U.S. downed flyers were killed out of hand. The only thing they didn't know was when they would die. Many flyers were used for bayonet practice. There are always two sides to a story. To tell one side of it is to attempt to persuade someone to your point of view despite facts. However, this is not the place to discuss it.

Ahhh why is it allways so in this BBS that one starts implying some things and then says its not the right place to discuss. Such a silly remark it makes my hair curl all the time.

History allways has different points of views ofcourse. But does your POV make it right to use degrading remarks on a whole group of peoples?

[B@tfinkV]

<--- brit.

<--- tommy.

<--- pommy bastard.

<--- bad teeth

<--- the Queen's beeotch.

<--- tard, dweeb, freak, fool, muppet, moron, idiot, weirdo, cherry picker, vulcher, ram tard, monkey boy, internet tough guy, red meat eater, alcoholic, pot head,  poor man, manual labourer, procrastinator, arrogant, offensive, ignorant, smelly, ugly, stupid, skinny, foul tempered, diseased, useless, lazy, waster, spoilt, unmotivated, unkempt, offensive, defensive, sick in the head, perverted, banana, loser, childish, old man, guilty, guilty, guilty.


please refrain from using any other insults on me, or i will become offended.

S!

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by JensK
Ahhh why is it allways so in this BBS that one starts implying some things and then says its not the right place to discuss. Such a silly remark it makes my hair curl all the time.

History allways has different points of views ofcourse. But does your POV make it right to use degrading remarks on a whole group of peoples?

Funny, I don't remember projecting a POV making anything right about using degrading remarks. I said using part of history to explain something is merely a way of trying to persuade your own POV. Try telling the whole story. However, when you do it takes us on a completely different tangent which really is what is not needed here. It was a poor example and was challenged. Nothing more.

If you'd like to discuss all of the ramifications of how and why people come to say what they do then let's discuss it in the O'Club. For instance, if you think a jew from a concentration camp is not going to call a nazi a nazi then you are sadly mistaken. However, within the context of this thread, I find it refreshing to hear 99 of the people flying calling out an enemy N1K a N1K and not a "jap" plane. If some American calls an Englishman a Brit it might be what they learned and was in not meant in a derogatory way.  Until someone tells them it seems derogatory what would you expect them to say?

For the record, my call sign is Renegade. When I began flying vox was not around. It immediately got shortened by those around me to Ren. Is that my call sign? No. Unless I began telling everyone it was derogatory to me personally how would you ever know it might be? Where's stympy? I get asked that all the time. When was the last time a Renegade ever ran around with a stympy? So if someone from the USA happens to type brit iso of british or english it might be an attempt to shorten up the typing iso trying to be derogatory. I normally shorten up any word I type or speed. When I see someone up like BTCobra I might say Hi BT. I have lots of respect for the man and mean nothing by typing BT just trying to get the Hi out quicker. Is it politically correct? Ask him since its his call sign. Is Ren politically correct..if you ask me it is.

[Kermit de frog]

Abrreviating a word for online use is fine by me.

I find other words be to offensive and I will not use them.

The word Jap spoken in a friendly way is NOT offensive.  If you use it in a derogatory way, then well, it's offensive.  That word is an abbreviation.

If I say "ch#nk" instead of chinese, well, I'm being offensive.  Sure it's easier to say, but that word ONLY means something derogatory to chinese.

Brit means British.
Others:
Aussie
Czech
Ruskie
Arab
Pole
etc...

In real life, when I speak, I normally do not use the word "Jap".
When I type, whether in emails, AH, or even with pen/paper, I will use "Jap" if the situation arises.  Now if this is something in a formal nature, I will not use "Jap" because abbreviating any word is best avoided.  I consider it shorthand and I've asked a friend if he found "Jap" offensive in an email.  He did not.

If some people that HATE the Japanese use the term "Jap" towards Japs, I'm sure you can see/hear the way they say it.  I will continue to use the word when writing/typing in shorthand.
I

[ColKLink]

My canadian financ'ee, (spelt right) calls me a "g-d american"......I see no problem with that, I am. I be what I be. >S<:D

[ColKLink]

She said at least I ain't a 'porkacheeser".

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by DamnedRen
I think that half of a history lesson is a one sided point of view. You quoted what EP wrote however you never mention the fact that the Japanese military looked on captured soldiers and flyers as subhuman because they never should have allowed themselves to be taken alive. Many U.S. downed flyers were killed out of hand. The only thing they didn't know was when they would die. Many flyers were used for bayonet practice. There are always two sides to a story. To tell one side of it is to attempt to persuade someone to your point of view despite facts. However, this is not the place to discuss it.

The fact is that 'Jap' as an ethnic slur, offends the Japanese Americans more than anybody else. Those who lived here at that time, for the most part, had nothing to do with how Japanese military treated POWs, and many were citizens.

The term Jap is used in English as an abbreviation of the word "Japanese." Today it is usually used as an ethnic slur, though English speaking countries differ in the degree they consider the term offensive. Most people of Japanese descent in these countries consider it offensive.

In Japanese dictionaries, the term Jap is only defined as a disparaging term used against the Japanese people; this is also the case in many English language dictionaries.
In the United States and Canada, the term is now considered derogatory; Webster's Dictionary notes it is "usually disparaging."
In the United Kingdom it is considered derogatory, and the Oxford dictionary defines it as offensive.

What more than above you need to know?

Usually people take care what words they use and when.

Youngsters talk differently to their parents than they do to the peers.
Friends talk to the friends differently then they do to strangers.

Why do you think it is so? Because the PC police says so? Or is it about the manners, respect, common sense, social boundaries etc.


Would you discuss merits of the word and its usage when somebody calls somebody's mom a w****, telling him he's hypersensitive or you'd just allow him to be offended?
Would you allow somebody to go to great lengths how the word is just a descriptor of certain profession and those women work hard for living, therefore is not really a bad word? And if it's not a bad word why that person is offended especially if his mom doesn't work in that profession at all?

The fact is that "Jap" will offend some people. If you're unsure of their presence, don't use it. Simple as that.

[Tiger]

Thinking about the title of this thread:  You know, a thread about proper punctuation would probably be a good thing.