Author Topic: teacher-asks-14-year-olds-to-renounce-us (Read 1193 times)

DYNAMITE · « **Reply #30 on:** September 16, 2007, 07:04:05 PM »

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Parent Michael Hill of Chico tells reporters, "The lesson being taught in class was that the U.S. kidnaps innocent people and takes them to Cuba, where they are kept indefinitely and tortured."

i'm not in favor of him renouncing his citizenship (though I can see how it could be used in the academic exercise that is noted in the second article)...

But this is what cracks me up about the whole thing... Some people here are outraged that this guy is supposedly renouncing his citizenship... yet I have yet to hear any outrage over our governments behavior in regards to "enemy combatants" many of whom are in-fact innocent and have been kidnapped by the United States, held indefinitely, and "Rendered" by various intelligence agencies.

Out of the two issues presented in the article, I know which one bothers me the most. (At least I have the power to contradict a whack job to my kids, where as I have no apparent power over my governments ability to kidnap and torture).

Rolex · « **Reply #31 on:** September 16, 2007, 07:47:48 PM »

There is something surreal about having to defend the idea that holding people indefinitely without charges and torture is wrong.

Ichthyologist · « **Reply #32 on:** September 16, 2007, 07:54:06 PM »

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Originally posted by Rolex
There is something surreal about having to defend the idea that holding people indefinitely without charges and torture is wrong.

Who is saying that it isn't?

AKIron · « **Reply #33 on:** September 16, 2007, 08:00:24 PM »

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Originally posted by Rolex
There is something surreal about having to defend the idea that holding people indefinitely without charges and torture is wrong.

What's not surreal but rather idiocy is releasing enemy combatants only to face them again on the same battlefield which has in fact happened in Afghanistan. I take exception with those who claim we are holding and torturing innocents on two counts. Those taken prisoner on the battlefield aren't innocent and we aren't torturing them.

Shuckins · « **Reply #34 on:** September 16, 2007, 09:09:50 PM »

This Guantanamo drivel gets very old.

Guantanamo holds over 500 prisoners in all. Since the start of operations against Afghanistan and Iraq, more then two hundred of those being held under suspicion of being terrorists have been released when investigations proved their innocence.

The accusations of torture have proven to be, after official inquiries have been made, to be unfounded.

Hold our present government in contempt for any one of a number of reasons if you must, but stating that any normal, competent U.S. official promotes the use of torture is despicable.

Bronk · « **Reply #35 on:** September 16, 2007, 09:51:26 PM »

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Originally posted by crockett

I haven't heard of too many Liberal home grown terrorists, yet we see it quite a bit on the Conservative side of the fence now don't we.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-terrorism
Bet a bunch of right wingers in the listed groups ehh?

Bronk

crockett · « **Reply #36 on:** September 16, 2007, 10:10:23 PM »

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Originally posted by Bronk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-terrorism
Bet a bunch of right wingers in the listed groups ehh?

Bronk

Oh yea I forgot out the tree hugger's whom spike trees and so on try to save animals..

"The FBI in 2001 named the ELF as "one of the most active extremist elements in the United States", and a "terrorist threat".[4] Some of these websites openly advocate tactics including arson, graffiti, vandalism and property destruction. Through their actions millions of dollars of homes, equipment, and research have been willfully destroyed by ALF and ELF operations, although they publicly disavow harm to humans or animals."

Hardly the same as blowing up federal buildings, robbing banks to support their cause and blowing up abortion clinics IMO.

Bronk · « **Reply #37 on:** September 17, 2007, 05:10:34 AM »

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Originally posted by crockett
Oh yea I forgot out the tree hugger's whom spike trees and so on try to save animals..

"The FBI in 2001 named the ELF as "one of the most active extremist elements in the United States", and a "terrorist threat".[4] Some of these websites openly advocate tactics including arson, graffiti, vandalism and property destruction. Through their actions millions of dollars of homes, equipment, and research have been willfully destroyed by ALF and ELF operations, although they publicly disavow harm to humans or animals."

Hardly the same as blowing up federal buildings, robbing banks to support their cause and blowing up abortion clinics IMO.

I see it's not bad to burn down a building but blow it up its a bad thing.
Right, which way to the DNC headquarters? Lets test your theory out.

On a serious note.
Way to be, apologist. Unlike you I wont deny he fact there are nut jobs that are conservative. Here's the thing they're not nut jobs because they are conservative, there just nut jobs.
You on the other hand will make up excuses for your's.
"It's not the same thing./ It's not as bad as."

It's that mentality that keeps the 2 sides from finding a middle ground.
Chit man you just downplayed arson because it was for a good cause.

Bronk

Shuffler · « **Reply #38 on:** September 17, 2007, 08:49:42 AM »

Innocents at Getmo?? Who here knows they are innocent.... who here will step up to the plate and take these so called poor souls into their home when they are released.

In reality all anyone on these boards knows for sure is what the blantantly ignorant news hounds feed you.

MORAY37 · « **Reply #39 on:** September 17, 2007, 10:31:05 AM »

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Originally posted by Shuffler
Innocents at Getmo?? Who here knows they are innocent.... who here will step up to the plate and take these so called poor souls into their home when they are released.

In reality all anyone on these boards knows for sure is what the blantantly ignorant news hounds feed you.

Innocent or not, no one here knows. But, there ARE people in Getmo that have YET to have charges filed against them. That has been well documented. That particular fact goes against our core belief of Habeas Corpus. Just because someone was in any place of combat does not make them a combatant.

We've come full circle from the Nuremburg Trials, where we were the allied power that DEMANDED Nazis be tried for their crimes, instead of simply taking them out of their cell and executing them or just throwing away the key to their cells, like the Russians and most Brits wanted to do.

AKIron · « **Reply #40 on:** September 17, 2007, 07:43:28 PM »

Get the other side to stop attacking and I'll throw in with those wanting the enemy combatants turned loose. We didn't release any Nazis so long as the fighting endured.

DYNAMITE · « **Reply #41 on:** September 17, 2007, 08:50:25 PM »

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Originally posted by AKIron
Get the other side to stop attacking and I'll throw in with those wanting the enemy combatants turned loose. We didn't release any Nazis so long as the fighting endured.

There was a difference between a Nazi and an average German citizen... just as there is a difference between a Terrorist and a Muslim. Lets not forget that.

AKIron · « **Reply #42 on:** September 17, 2007, 09:01:51 PM »

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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
There was a difference between a Nazi and an average German citizen... just as there is a difference between a Terrorist and a Muslim. Lets not forget that.

I would allow the average Nazi more latitude than the average terrorist. I believe that only God should judge people by the content of their hearts, men should judge only by actions. I believe those we have imprisoned are there for their actions and even at that it is not punitive but rather to avoid having to kill or be killed by them.

midnight Target · « **Reply #43 on:** September 17, 2007, 09:30:02 PM »

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Originally posted by AKIron
Get the other side to stop attacking and I'll throw in with those wanting the enemy combatants turned loose. We didn't release any Nazis so long as the fighting endured.

Dang we could have held those Nazis much longer if we had only invaded Sweden in 1946.... I mean, there were documented meetings between Sweden and Germany! We missed our chance.

Maverick · « **Reply #44 on:** September 17, 2007, 09:45:35 PM »

A slight difference was that the Germans all stopped fighting. Can you imagine what it would have been like if we had to end WW2 by invading Japan. I imagine it would make iraq look like a walk in the park.