Little League Baseball

[Dichotomy]

Here's the situation.

My 7 year old is a competition nut.  He goes hard and he plays to win.  Last year we signed him up for T-ball and had to explain that they didn't keep score and he was just playing to learn but they did keep score in coach pitch so, once he knew what he was doing, he'd know if they won or lost.

This year we specifically asked if the league would be keeping scores and standings and were assured that they would.  This morning my wife logs on to check the schedule and notices that all of the games posted thus far had scores of 5 - 5 for all teams.  

She contacted the league office and was told that they had decided that at this age level it should be considered developmental and the kids should just learn to love to play the game for the love of it.

This is utter rubbish in my opinion.   When I was growing up even if we were playing sand lot baseball, hockey, or whatever, we kept score.

So here's my question for the minds of the O Club at what age is it appropriate to learn about being gracious in victory and honorable in defeat? 7, 8, 9, 10? 40?   What are your opinions about the trend to have no 'losers' in childrens sports?

[Tiger]

The trend to no 'losers' in sports is going to ruin this country.  Competition is what makes America great.  Teaching kids at a young age that their are no losers in life will ruin them.  What happens when they fail a test (mom, I thought there were no losers in lofe, how come I got an F and Johnny got an A)  Or when he gets passed up for a promotion (Mom, how come Johnny got promoted and I didn't, thought there were no losers in life).

Imagine if businesses ran like that?  We'd still have 13" Black and WHite TV's and Microwaves that weighed 600 lbs and took 10 mins to pop a bag of pop corn.   Our computers would be topped at 85 MgHz with 16Mb ram and 12.2 Modems.

Back to sports:  I feel we can thank Soccer for the rise in this trend in sports.  I swear they were the one's that started this.  (That and those lovely 0-0 scores after playing for 2 hours)

[Holden McGroin]

Your child's self esteem is much more important than the score of a game.  Think of the psychological damage that could occur if he should be on the losing team... years of therapy could be in the offing.

[FBBone]

Are you REALLY asking the O'club about being gracious in victory and defeat?  You might as well beat your head on the concrete!:D

[Donzo]

The "no losers" philosophy in childrens sports is crap IMO.

There are winners and losers in many aspects of real life and the sooner kids understand this the better.

Remember this?
"It doesn't matter if you win or lose, what matters is how you play the game"
I believe this to be true.  
But it does not mean anything if you are not keeping score because with no winners or losers, how you play the game is meaningless.  In other words, you played your best and won...good for you.  You played your best and lost...good for you...you did all you could do (no padding of the ego) and if you're smart you will look for things to help you improve so you will do better next time.

"No losers" gives kids a false sense of ability...IMO.

[texasmom]

Originally posted by Dichotomy

She contacted the league office and was told that they had decided that at this age level it should be considered developmental and the kids should just learn to love to play the game for the love of it.

This is utter rubbish in my opinion.   When I was growing up even if we were playing sand lot baseball, hockey, or whatever, we kept score.

So here's my question for the minds of the O Club at what age is it appropriate to learn about being gracious in victory and honorable in defeat? 7, 8, 9, 10? 40?   What are your opinions about the trend to have no 'losers' in childrens sports?

I agree. That's rubbish. How do they ever learn to be gracious in victory or defeat if nobody ever loses or wins? sheesh.

I say start the winning & losing all the way down at pee-wee leagues (do they still even have pee-wee leagues?).

My kids keep score at EVERYTHING they do. Their whole existance revolves around one-up-man-ship(3 sons, no girls to calm down that tempo).  But they're graceful losers (most of the time).   Wouldn't have it any other way.

[Hornet33]

I know when I started playing t-ball at around 5-6 years old we kept score. I don't remember any sport I ever played were we didn't. It's the only way to gage how your doing. All this stuff about not wanting kids to feel like losers is a bunch of crap. Losing is part of life. It happens to everyone now and then and the sooner kids learn that the better off they'll be. The only thing they're teaching kids by not keeping score is that it's OK to be just like everyone else and that they don't even have to try. WRONG!!!!! The fact is....It pays to be a winner.

[Dichotomy]

Originally posted by FBBone
Are you REALLY asking the O'club about being gracious in victory and defeat?  You might as well beat your head on the concrete!:D

And you think I haven't done that?  How do you think I got as warped as I am


Funny aside.  When I started playing AH Shiva (baseball kid) asked me how you won.  I explained to him that the game never ends but sometimes you shot down people and other times you got shot down.  So he looks at me and says completely seriously 'so what's the point?'

[Curval]

I felt the same way as most of you when I first started coaching Tee Ball last year.  Our league didn't even have a 3 out rule....everyone batted in every inning.  I got one opposing coach get really upset when we got three outs and I called my team off the field.  It almost sparked a confrontation between us as I happened to have a copy of the rules on me and there was no mention of said rule....but as it turned out he was right.

I thought this was silly...but then my oldest went up a league to Rookies and believe me they get all the competitive stuff they need in that league.  There was one team whose coaches managed to rig the draft they had and got themselves a team full of ringers.  They crushed every other team in the league by a crazy margin all season.

It was silly how competitive the league are above Tee Ball...and I live for competition.  I no longer play recreational tennis because it bores me as I used to play competitively, for example.

Let the kids get the basics in Tee Ball without being competitive.  The kids who are playing for the first time need to learn to enjoy the game so that they want to deal with the competitiveness later on.  Do it too early and many will drop out when they shouldn't.

[JBA]

3-5 years, it's never to early to explain that life is not equal (fair). There are some people who are better at some things then you, and you should work harder to achieve your best.


Haveing no losers is not going to help our children, My kids ages 4 and 7 understand wining and loseing. in fact I will refuse to play with them if they try to cheat. I explian it's better to lose and have tried your best then win and cheat.  

My 7 year old sucks it up and tries harder to bet me. And he's damn good now as some of the games we play.

He's in Tae-Kown-Do and is now sparing with bigger kids, he doesn’t back down and knows to get better he has to not hold back.

[Shuffler]

Little League is crooked all around Texas. I would never dream of one of my kids being involved in it here.

[myelo]

Little kids can handle keeping score, winning and losing just fine.

Unfortunately many parents and coaches can't.

I used to umpire a lot of youth baseball and never had to eject a player younger than 13. But there were several coaches I sent to the parking lot and a whole lot of parents I wish I could have given the heave ho to.

[Gooss]

You're in the wrong league.  Little League is only one youth baseball organization.  I recommend Pony Baseball.  Yes, Pony Division of Pony Baseball is for 13 year olds.  Bronco Division is 11-12 year olds.  Mustang is 9-10 year olds.  Pinto is 7-8 year olds.  

They keep score.  Nine and ten year olds in Mustang Division play real baseball.  Baserunners can steal, pitchers can balk, etc.  Only the field is smaller than MLB fields.  

Little League is not baseball.  Twelve year olds on 60 ft base paths.  No stealing.  Pitchers not learning how to pitch from the windup and the stretch.  Not checking runners.  Catchers who aren't learning to throw out base stealers.  Middle infielders who don't learn pick off plays.  Yuck.  

A local Little League team was World Champion.  They were the real deal on ESPN and everything.  They took their juggernaut on the road as a tournament team.  They got their butts kicked.  They didn't know how to play baseball.  

Check out Pony:  http://www.pony.org   Maybe there's a league in your area.

HONK!
Gooss

[Dichotomy]

Pony league looks intriguing

[Curval]

Originally posted by myelo
Little kids can handle keeping score, winning and losing just fine.

Unfortunately many parents and coaches can't.

I used to umpire a lot of youth baseball and never had to eject a player younger than 13. But there were several coaches I sent to the parking lot and a whole lot of parents I wish I could have given the heave ho to.

Actually this is pretty darn accurate.