Author Topic: Best dogfight ever...  (Read 1003 times)

Offline SkyRock

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7758
Best dogfight ever...
« on: October 18, 2007, 10:25:20 AM »
Any of you AH historians care to share some real life stories of the greatest dogfights ever in WWII.  I am talking about Robert Johnson type stuff or how someone survived the most outnumbered odds.  Please share your history.:aok

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9402
Re: Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2007, 10:37:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
Any of you AH historians care to share some real life stories of the greatest dogfights ever in WWII.  I am talking about Robert Johnson type stuff or how someone survived the most outnumbered odds.  Please share your history.:aok

OK.  This one may remind you of some good fights you've had in AH.  Except it was for real, of course.

From JG 26 - Top Guns of the Luftwaffe, by Donald L. Caldwell (Ivy Books, New York 1991), ISBN 0-8041-1050-6 (First Ballentine Edition, June 1993), at page 276:

[The following occurred on the afternoon of September 17, 1944 - the first day of Operation Market-Garden]:

The Third Gruppe [of JG26] also fought a battle with Mustangs, with ruinous consequences for itself.  In mid-afternoon, Major Mietusch assembled about fifteen Bf 109s of his scattered command and headed for the landing zones, climbing all the way.  The weather had taken a turn for the worse, and there was a continuous layer of thin cloud at 15,000 feet.  The Germans climbed through it, and then, while above the Dutch-German border, Mietusch spotted a squadron of P-51s below them.  He radioed, “Otter Mietusch, I am attacking!” and dove through the cloud.  His first burst of fire destroyed the Number 4 plane of the trailing cover flight.  Oblt. Schild hit the Number 2 Mustang’s drop tank, and it dove away trailing a solid sheet of flame.  The events of the next few minutes are best stated in the words of the leader of that P-51 flight, Lt. William Beyer of the 361st Fighter Group’s 376th Squadron:

*          *          *

I was the flight leader at the tail end of the squadron.  We had flown back and forth between checkpoints for a couple of hours.  My wingmen apparently got tired of looking around for enemy aircraft.  Only by the grace of God did I happen to look behind us at that particular moment, because in no more than a couple of seconds the enemy would have shot the whole flight down.

I saw about fifteen German fighters closing fast with all their guns firing.  I immediately broke 180 degrees and called out the enemy attack.  My Number 4 man went down in flames, and my wingman got hit and spun out.  I headed straight back into the German fighters and went through the whole group, just about in the center of them.  We were separated by only a few feet...

I immediately made another 180-degree turn, picked out one of them, and started to chase it.  The rest of the fighters zoomed back up into the clouds and disappeared.  We made many violent high-G maneuvers with wide open throttle.  When I started to close and fire, I noticed that his plane seemed to have stopped in the air.  I had to decide whether to shoot and run, or to try to stop my plane.  I cut throttle, lowered flaps, and dropped my wheels - I still kept closing.  I had to fishtail and do flat weaves to stay behind him.  This maneuver was repeated three times, and on one occasion I almost cut his tail off, we were so close...

Then we started into steep dives.  The last one was at around 1,000 feet with flaps down.  This last maneuver was deadly and nerve-racking.  He went straight down toward the ground, hoping I couldn’t pull out.  If I pulled out early, he could have come in behind me, so I stayed with him.  If we had had our wheels down when we pulled out, we would have been on the ground.

It was after this pullout that I finally was able to get my sights lined up and fire at him.  I must have hit him with the first burst, because he kept turning and went into the ground and broke up.  Knowing the caliber of this German pilot, I am sure that if I had taken the time to get off some shots when he was slowing down he could have possibly shot me down or made a getaway.  My other combat victories were not nearly as spectacular as this one, and it is with this in mind that I can recall it so vividly.

*          *          *

Lt Beyer’s victim was Klaus Mietusch.  Mietusch was one of the most fascinating individuals in the Geschwader’s history.  He was a career officer, had joined the Geschwader in 1938, and was its senior pilot in length of service when he died at age twenty-five.  His early combat career was marked by a seemingly endless series of failures and frustrations.  A member of the successful 7th Staffel under Muencheberg, he did not come into his own until he succeeded to the command and led it on detached assignment in Russia in 1943.  He was the opposite of the typical extroverted, self-confident fighter pilot.  He compensated for what he believed to be his lack of ability by an act of will.  According to Priller, Mietusch’s combat motto was, “Bore in, until the enemy is as large as a barn door in your sights.”  Again quoting Priller, duty as Mietusch’s wingman was an “unforgettable experience.”  Mietusch was shot down ten times and was wounded at least four times.  He was said never to have turned down a mission, and he had logged an incredible 452 combat sorties at the time of his death.  His seventy-two victories brought the award of the Oak Leaves to his Knights’s Cross, two months after his death.

Offline SteffK

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1024
      • http://www.71sqn.co.uk
Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2007, 10:44:41 AM »
The Only VC received by the RAF during the Battle of Britain

James Nicolson's
Victoria Cross

   

During the Battle of Britain many brave young pilots were to receive awards of distinction for their actions, but only one was to receive the Victoria Cross

On August 16th 1940, 23-year-old Flight Lieutenant James Nicolson of No. 249 Squadron was scrambled from Boscombe Down, Wiltshire, flying Hurricane P3576 of Red Section with Squadron Leader Eric King and Pilot Officer Martyn King

The pilots were to intercept and attack BF110's approaching Southampton from Gosport where a large raid was building up. The invaders had been sighted and Red Section dived towards the BF110's when, suddenly, a Staffel of BF109's jumped them from above. All three Hurricanes were hit

Squadron Leader King, the least badly damaged, broke off his attack and returned to Boscombe Down. Pilot Officer King abandoned his burning Hurricane and baled out

Four cannon shells hit Flight Lieutenant Nicolson's aircraft. One destroyed the perspex hood subsequently damaging his left eye and temporarily blinding him with blood. The reserve petrol tank was also struck along with his left leg. The Hurricane was now ablaze with the instrument panel melting, his hands blistering from the heat and his trousers on fire

Whilst preparing to bale out, a BF110 appeared in front of him. He slid back into his burning cockpit and continued flying the Hurricane after the enemy. Closing in, Nicolson opened fire and although the BF110 took evasive action to avoid the bullets, it was sent crashing into the sea

Finally baling out of his stricken aircraft, Nicolson had sustained severe burns to his hands, parts of his face, his eyelid was torn and his foot badly wounded. His ordeal however, was not quite over

While descending towards the ground some Local Defence Volunteers (LVD), under orders, opened fire with rifles at what they believed to be enemy parachutists. Pilot Officer King had his parachute badly damaged and plummeted to his death. Flight Lieutenant Nicolson, in great pain, landed alive with further wounds received from shotgun pellets

He was rushed to The Royal Southampton Hospital where he made a full recovery and returned to active duty during late 1941

His bravery and disregard for his own life in defence of his country earned him the Victoria Cross, which was awarded on 15th November 1940

May the actions of Flight Lieutenant James Nicolson and The Few never be forgotten

http://www.battle-of-britain.com/BoB2/Battle_personnel/VC/victoria_cross.htm
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 10:52:41 AM by SteffK »
Steff K
This is the Flag of my Country!
This is the Flag of St George!!!
This is the Flag of my Country!

Offline Dace

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1443
Re: Re: Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2007, 12:05:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
 From JG 26 - Top Guns of the Luftwaffe, by Donald L. Caldwell (Ivy Books, New York 1991), ISBN 0-8041-1050-6 (First Ballentine Edition, June 1993)


Great book! 1 of my faves.:aok

Offline 999000

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 891
Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2007, 01:16:33 PM »
I had a great dogfight with my B17 and a couple of 110's over a town last night!
999000

Offline mussie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2147
Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2007, 01:35:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 999000
I had a great dogfight with my B17 and a couple of 110's over a town last night!
999000


Some how i doubt that the 110 pilots would describe it that way :p

Offline sunfan1121

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2051
Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2007, 01:39:36 PM »
The death of Walter Nowotny.

November 8, 1944

Adolph Galland, Luftwaffe General of Fighters, visited Achmer for an inspection. Nowotny was going to give Galland his pilots' flight reports. A flight of B-17 bombers was reported, so the unit took off, about six jets in the first wave, then another. The Fw-190Ds were waiting on the runway cover their return of the jets. Galland was in the operations shack, monitoring the pilots' radio transmissions. Several bombers were called out as shot down, and Nowotny radioed that he was approaching. The flight leader on the ground, Hans Dortenmann, requested permission to take off to assist, but Nowotny said no, to wait. The defensive anti-aircraft battery opened fire on a few P-51 Mustangs that approached the field, but they were chased away. The jets were coming in.
One Me-262 had been shot down, and Nowotny reported an engine failure before making a garbled transmission referring to “burning”. Galland watched Nowi's approach, heard the sound of a jet engine, and saw his Me 262 A-1a (W.Nr. 110 400) “White 8” dive vertically out of the clouds and crash at Epe, 2.5 kilometres east of Hesepe. The explosions rocked the air, and only a column of black smoke rose from behind the trees. The wreckage was Nowotny's plane. After sifting through it, the only salvageable things found were his left hand and pieces of his Diamonds decoration.
A drunk driver will run a stop sign. A stoned driver will stop until it turns green.

Offline BaldEagl

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10791
Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2007, 01:57:42 PM »
I've posted this before but it's got to be one of the best stories ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_32ZspW80v4&mode=related&search=
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline Donzo

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
      • http://www.bops.us
Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2007, 02:20:06 PM »
This one time, at band camp....

Offline P47Gra

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 240
Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2007, 02:54:17 PM »
My grand dad has a story as a Jug pilot.  I will have to dig out his diary to get it straight.  It was the first encounter he had with a 262.  He survived it but got jumped by 190's and limped it home.  continued.....

Offline 999000

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 891
Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2007, 03:23:48 PM »
Mussie .. Well they both did go down....love you man !
999000

Offline SkyRock

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7758
Re: Re: Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2007, 03:47:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
OK.  This one may remind you of some good fights you've had in AH.  Except it was for real, of course.

From JG 26 - Top Guns of the Luftwaffe, by Donald L. Caldwell (Ivy Books, New York 1991), ISBN 0-8041-1050-6 (First Ballentine Edition, June 1993), at page 276:

[The following occurred on the afternoon of September 17, 1944 - the first day of Operation Market-Garden]:

The Third Gruppe [of JG26] also fought a battle with Mustangs, with ruinous consequences for itself.  In mid-afternoon, Major Mietusch assembled about fifteen Bf 109s of his scattered command and headed for the landing zones, climbing all the way.  The weather had taken a turn for the worse, and there was a continuous layer of thin cloud at 15,000 feet.  The Germans climbed through it, and then, while above the Dutch-German border, Mietusch spotted a squadron of P-51s below them.  He radioed, “Otter Mietusch, I am attacking!” and dove through the cloud.  His first burst of fire destroyed the Number 4 plane of the trailing cover flight.  Oblt. Schild hit the Number 2 Mustang’s drop tank, and it dove away trailing a solid sheet of flame.  The events of the next few minutes are best stated in the words of the leader of that P-51 flight, Lt. William Beyer of the 361st Fighter Group’s 376th Squadron:

*          *          *

I was the flight leader at the tail end of the squadron.  We had flown back and forth between checkpoints for a couple of hours.  My wingmen apparently got tired of looking around for enemy aircraft.  Only by the grace of God did I happen to look behind us at that particular moment, because in no more than a couple of seconds the enemy would have shot the whole flight down.

I saw about fifteen German fighters closing fast with all their guns firing.  I immediately broke 180 degrees and called out the enemy attack.  My Number 4 man went down in flames, and my wingman got hit and spun out.  I headed straight back into the German fighters and went through the whole group, just about in the center of them.  We were separated by only a few feet...

I immediately made another 180-degree turn, picked out one of them, and started to chase it.  The rest of the fighters zoomed back up into the clouds and disappeared.  We made many violent high-G maneuvers with wide open throttle.  When I started to close and fire, I noticed that his plane seemed to have stopped in the air.  I had to decide whether to shoot and run, or to try to stop my plane.  I cut throttle, lowered flaps, and dropped my wheels - I still kept closing.  I had to fishtail and do flat weaves to stay behind him.  This maneuver was repeated three times, and on one occasion I almost cut his tail off, we were so close...

Then we started into steep dives.  The last one was at around 1,000 feet with flaps down.  This last maneuver was deadly and nerve-racking.  He went straight down toward the ground, hoping I couldn’t pull out.  If I pulled out early, he could have come in behind me, so I stayed with him.  If we had had our wheels down when we pulled out, we would have been on the ground.

It was after this pullout that I finally was able to get my sights lined up and fire at him.  I must have hit him with the first burst, because he kept turning and went into the ground and broke up.  Knowing the caliber of this German pilot, I am sure that if I had taken the time to get off some shots when he was slowing down he could have possibly shot me down or made a getaway.  My other combat victories were not nearly as spectacular as this one, and it is with this in mind that I can recall it so vividly.

*          *          *

Lt Beyer’s victim was Klaus Mietusch.  Mietusch was one of the most fascinating individuals in the Geschwader’s history.  He was a career officer, had joined the Geschwader in 1938, and was its senior pilot in length of service when he died at age twenty-five.  His early combat career was marked by a seemingly endless series of failures and frustrations.  A member of the successful 7th Staffel under Muencheberg, he did not come into his own until he succeeded to the command and led it on detached assignment in Russia in 1943.  He was the opposite of the typical extroverted, self-confident fighter pilot.  He compensated for what he believed to be his lack of ability by an act of will.  According to Priller, Mietusch’s combat motto was, “Bore in, until the enemy is as large as a barn door in your sights.”  Again quoting Priller, duty as Mietusch’s wingman was an “unforgettable experience.”  Mietusch was shot down ten times and was wounded at least four times.  He was said never to have turned down a mission, and he had logged an incredible 452 combat sorties at the time of his death.  His seventy-two victories brought the award of the Oak Leaves to his Knights’s Cross, two months after his death.
:aok tnx!

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline SkyRock

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7758
Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2007, 03:48:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SteffK
The Only VC received by the RAF during the Battle of Britain

James Nicolson's
Victoria Cross

   

During the Battle of Britain many brave young pilots were to receive awards of distinction for their actions, but only one was to receive the Victoria Cross

On August 16th 1940, 23-year-old Flight Lieutenant James Nicolson of No. 249 Squadron was scrambled from Boscombe Down, Wiltshire, flying Hurricane P3576 of Red Section with Squadron Leader Eric King and Pilot Officer Martyn King

The pilots were to intercept and attack BF110's approaching Southampton from Gosport where a large raid was building up. The invaders had been sighted and Red Section dived towards the BF110's when, suddenly, a Staffel of BF109's jumped them from above. All three Hurricanes were hit

Squadron Leader King, the least badly damaged, broke off his attack and returned to Boscombe Down. Pilot Officer King abandoned his burning Hurricane and baled out

Four cannon shells hit Flight Lieutenant Nicolson's aircraft. One destroyed the perspex hood subsequently damaging his left eye and temporarily blinding him with blood. The reserve petrol tank was also struck along with his left leg. The Hurricane was now ablaze with the instrument panel melting, his hands blistering from the heat and his trousers on fire

Whilst preparing to bale out, a BF110 appeared in front of him. He slid back into his burning cockpit and continued flying the Hurricane after the enemy. Closing in, Nicolson opened fire and although the BF110 took evasive action to avoid the bullets, it was sent crashing into the sea

Finally baling out of his stricken aircraft, Nicolson had sustained severe burns to his hands, parts of his face, his eyelid was torn and his foot badly wounded. His ordeal however, was not quite over

While descending towards the ground some Local Defence Volunteers (LVD), under orders, opened fire with rifles at what they believed to be enemy parachutists. Pilot Officer King had his parachute badly damaged and plummeted to his death. Flight Lieutenant Nicolson, in great pain, landed alive with further wounds received from shotgun pellets

He was rushed to The Royal Southampton Hospital where he made a full recovery and returned to active duty during late 1941

His bravery and disregard for his own life in defence of his country earned him the Victoria Cross, which was awarded on 15th November 1940

May the actions of Flight Lieutenant James Nicolson and The Few never be forgotten

http://www.battle-of-britain.com/BoB2/Battle_personnel/VC/victoria_cross.htm
:aok tnx!

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline SkyRock

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7758
Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2007, 03:48:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 999000
I had a great dogfight with my B17 and a couple of 110's over a town last night!
999000
Was asking for real life WWII stories peeps had read about!:aok

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline SkyRock

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7758
Best dogfight ever...
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2007, 03:49:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by P47Gra
My grand dad has a story as a Jug pilot.  I will have to dig out his diary to get it straight.  It was the first encounter he had with a 262.  He survived it but got jumped by 190's and limped it home.  continued.....
Can't wait!:aok

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"