It's Like the Hydra

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Airscrew
I agree with Laz, after reading this entire thread.   This is the same reason why I dont discuss politics with my wife.  She voted for Carter, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry.  She gets love letters from the DNC.  She served on a jury and felt sorry for the criminal.  She doesnt like me to make fun of Hillary, it upsets her... I made a mistake of calling her a liberal and she disagreed... loudly...for days......  I give up.  

A discussion about politics, religion, and the world between a man and a woman is fustrating and (to borrow a phrase)

Its like teaching a pig to sing.   Its a waste of time and it annoys the pig

I agree for the most part. I see it all the time between men and women married or living together.
What I don`t understand is why. Why would you marry or live with someone that thinks and believes at about 180 out from your beliefs? Don`t know how that works. I guess I lucked out.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Actually, the cold war was an economic war.  The US waged all out total war with "Star Wars."  And won.

So now even you're not sure you had a point now?

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Airscrew
I agree with Laz, after reading this entire thread.   This is the same reason why I dont discuss politics with my wife.  She voted for Carter, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry.  She gets love letters from the DNC.  She served on a jury and felt sorry for the criminal.  She doesnt like me to make fun of Hillary, it upsets her... I made a mistake of calling her a liberal and she disagreed... loudly...for days......  I give up.  

A discussion about politics, religion, and the world between a man and a woman is fustrating and (to borrow a phrase)

Its like teaching a pig to sing.   Its a waste of time and it annoys the pig

When all else fails hyperbole, generalization, character assassination and just general pissyness?

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Arlo
So now even you're not sure you had a point now?

I'm not following you...

[john9001]

Originally posted by Arlo
So now even you're not sure you had a point now?

Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'm not following you...

arlo tries to be cool, sophisticated, witty, but he really ends up being very vague.

just tell us how you feel in plain language arlo, some of us have not been educated (brainwashed) at Berkeley.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by john9001
arlo tries to be cool, sophisticated, witty, but he really ends up being very vague.

just tell us how you feel in plain language arlo, some of us have not been educated (brainwashed) at Berkeley.

A Texas politician once responded to a fellow on the floor of the state capital who kept asking for clarification:

"I can explain it to you but I sure can't understand it for you."

And you're not that good at fishin', john.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'm not following you...

Your assertion fell flat. You even admitted (whether you realize or not). No, ummm ... lasersailor .... "starwars" isn't an example of "total war."

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Arlo
Your assertion fell flat. You even admitted (whether you realize or not). No, ummm ... lasersailor .... "starwars" isn't an example of "total war."

I'm sorry, you're right.


Star Wars was not total war.  It's pure coincidence that some 18/19 years later Russia still has not recovered.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'm sorry, you're right.


Star Wars was not total war.  It's pure coincidence that some 18/19 years later Russia still has not recovered.

Still not making your ... ummmm ... point. But please continue making mine. I'm good with that.

[RedTop]

Originally posted by Tigeress
Hi RedTop,

Thank you very much for your reply and thoughts and sentiments, dear.

Take a look at this and let me know what you think...

This is Wafa Sultan, Phd, formerly of Syria now living in the US.

Wafa Sultan speaks up

Wafa Sultan Clashes over Islamic Teachings & Terrorists

TIGERESS

Although she makes some good points , she is fighting a huge uphill battle in my opinion.

Muslims and Islam will never go away. We will be fighting this "War on Terror" until the end of time. No end in sight at all. The islamic faith isn't going to "Go away" and as long as there are people who read it in the way of killing all non believers , we're in a fight.

Also , I think the harder we push towards killing the islamic extremists , the more muslims will turn to the side of extremism. What I mean is , we have what , several million muslims in this country. What if say 10 percent , 1 in every 10  , 10 of every 100 or 100,000 of each million , begin to sypathize with the extremists? Someone makes a statment that sends muslims even more off thier rocker. All of the sudden we have a HUGE problem here. Right in our own backyard.

Yet , we can't stop fighting the war simply because people don't like it.

I will be brutally honest here and say I have NO friends who are muslim. Not one. I don't associate with people from the middle east nor do I have a desire to. No matter WHAT they think of me.

They may like me and my country fine for all I know. They may act that way as well and who knows where or what they may do given the right time and place. I don't trust anyone from there. Biggoted? Probably so...but the 9-11 hijackers played a great act and all the while seemed semi normal. Right up to the point the hijacked 4 planes and killed thousands.

She makes good talking points for certain people to play off of and say , "See they are not like you thought they were."

The reeal question for you is , do you continue to live in fear of an attack? Or , do you simply get on with life , be mindful of your surroundings and learn that thier are ALOT of bad people in the world and they don't care who they hurt only that they hurt or kill alot.

I choose to do the latter. I don't look for trouble. I stay within my lil area of comfort in my world. I protect what is mine and my family.


I have no answers really in this "War on Terror" other than to thinkwhat I would do if I was in power. ANd my way ould prolly lead to closely resembleing the end of the world as we know it.

Your cut one head off and 2 grow back analogy is spot on.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by RedTop
Although she makes some good points , she is fighting a huge uphill battle in my opinion.

Muslims and Islam will never go away. We will be fighting this "War on Terror" until the end of time. No end in sight at all. The islamic faith isn't going to "Go away" and as long as there are people who read it in the way of killing all non believers , we're in a fight.

Also , I think the harder we push towards killing the islamic extremists , the more muslims will turn to the side of extremism. What I mean is , we have what , several million muslims in this country. What if say 10 percent , 1 in every 10  , 10 of every 100 or 100,000 of each million , begin to sypathize with the extremists? Someone makes a statment that sends muslims even more off thier rocker. All of the sudden we have a HUGE problem here. Right in our own backyard.

Yet , we can't stop fighting the war simply because people don't like it.

I will be brutally honest here and say I have NO friends who are muslim. Not one. I don't associate with people from the middle east nor do I have a desire to. No matter WHAT they think of me.

They may like me and my country fine for all I know. They may act that way as well and who knows where or what they may do given the right time and place. I don't trust anyone from there. Biggoted? Probably so...but the 9-11 hijackers played a great act and all the while seemed semi normal. Right up to the point the hijacked 4 planes and killed thousands.

She makes good talking points for certain people to play off of and say , "See they are not like you thought they were."

The reeal question for you is , do you continue to live in fear of an attack? Or , do you simply get on with life , be mindful of your surroundings and learn that thier are ALOT of bad people in the world and they don't care who they hurt only that they hurt or kill alot.

I choose to do the latter. I don't look for trouble. I stay within my lil area of comfort in my world. I protect what is mine and my family.


I have no answers really in this "War on Terror" other than to thinkwhat I would do if I was in power. ANd my way ould prolly lead to closely resembleing the end of the world as we know it.

Your cut one head off and 2 grow back analogy is spot on.

It's not a fight against Islam and we shouldn't try to make it so. Your post illustrates the folly of such, actually. Unfortunately it also illustrates your unwillingness to avoid it. It even goes so far to show your willingness ... your desire to go the route of making it a war against Islam.

I have Muslim friends. I associate from people from the Middle East. I have Jewish friends that do so, as well. Without such you will never have a true understanding. Though you may believe you do.

If you're gonna fight a war ... fight it smart. Identify the enemy ... accurately. Reduce the enemy's political and recruiting base. That means not playing into the hands of the enemy's political rhetoric just because we're too frustatrated or lazy to ... fight a smart war.

[RedTop]

It's not a fight against Islam and we shouldn't try to make it so. Your post illustrates the folly of such, actually. Unfortunately it also illustrates you're unwillingness to avoid it. It even goes so far to show your willingness ... your desire to go the route of making it a war against Islam.

Then what do you see the war as a fight against? Not being controversial here just chatting and getting your take. What exactly do you think we are fighting.

I have Muslim friends. I associate from people from the Middle East. I have Jewish friends that do so, as well. Without such you will never have a true understanding. Though you may believe you do.

True understanding? Hmmm...well your right that I don't have a "true" understanding of the muslim people or islam. Nor do I of catholics , mormans, Methodists , buhddists , hindus ect.....But , none of those are in a vest with dynamite strapped to themselves blowing up a pizza hut. Least not yet. None of those people are setting IED's for american troops. None of those have called for a holy war on america. That I know of.

If I were to put you in a room with lest say , 100 muslims with a strong belief in Islam. 10 of them are terrorists. Would you be able to pick those 10 out? If so how?


If you're gonna fight a war ... fight it smart. Identify the enemy ... accurately. Reduce the enemy's political and recruiting base. That means not playing into the hands of the enemy's political rhetoric just because we're too frustatrated or lazy to ... fight a smart war.

Fight it smart. Ok. There in lies the problem with the "War on Terror". What is smart? How do you reduce the recruiting base when the base is basically islam and it's teachings? The political rhetoric is coming from all angles. I've given up on that. Common sense tells me that If I cannot identify my enemy by his uniform , and my enemey shares the same belief as a non combatant , then I shouldn't trust any of those people at all. Why is this wrong thinking?

Again...I'm just looking to discuss...not antagonise here.

What ya think?

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by Arlo
It's not a fight against Islam and we shouldn't try to make it so. Your post illustrates the folly of such, actually. Unfortunately it also illustrates your unwillingness to avoid it. It even goes so far to show your willingness ... your desire to go the route of making it a war against Islam.

I have Muslim friends. I associate from people from the Middle East. I have Jewish friends that do so, as well. Without such you will never have a true understanding. Though you may believe you do.

If you're gonna fight a war ... fight it smart. Identify the enemy ... accurately. Reduce the enemy's political and recruiting base. That means not playing into the hands of the enemy's political rhetoric just because we're too frustatrated or lazy to ... fight a smart war.

I so agree Arlo.

That is why I ask for ideas... origional ideas... ground breaking ideas ...out of the box thinking ideas.

I don't believe humankind has to simply accept a "catch 22" like this situation as being intractable and impossible and simply throw what we know how to do at it knowing it will not achieve the desired results in our lifetime and perhaps the lifetime of our children and grandchildren or hoping against hope that it will.

Identify the real problem and solve it.

To me the real problem is "not editing the Quran"... as infinitely simple as that sounds.

Perhaps a new Mohammad... and enlightened one... in effect.

Should not the non-Muslim 4.2 billion people of the world be free from religous persecution mandated by the Quran, thus Islam, thus these zombie-like terrorists and the religous extremists and those who bend to pressure from these two groups thus provide support for these zombies world wide?

When and where is Freedom From Religion going to play a role on the Religion Playing Field in addition to the Field of Battle?

These people believe they are Solders of God and dying is cool.

Try taking a copy of the Quran on stage at a worldwide televised even and start debating... how about that? Perhaps at the UN.

TIGERESS

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Arlo
It's not a fight against Islam and we shouldn't try to make it so. Your post illustrates the folly of such, actually. Unfortunately it also illustrates your unwillingness to avoid it. It even goes so far to show your willingness ... your desire to go the route of making it a war against Islam.

I have Muslim friends. I associate from people from the Middle East. I have Jewish friends that do so, as well. Without such you will never have a true understanding. Though you may believe you do.

If you're gonna fight a war ... fight it smart. Identify the enemy ... accurately. Reduce the enemy's political and recruiting base. That means not playing into the hands of the enemy's political rhetoric just because we're too frustatrated or lazy to ... fight a smart war.

No war has ever been won by fighting "a smart war."  Ever.  Ever, ever, ever.



"... Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it."

[Arlo]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
No war has ever been won by fighting "a smart war."  Ever.  Ever, ever, ever.

"... Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it."

Wrong on the first. Living proof on the second. Try AOL keyword "crusades."

Contrary to apparent "popular" belief, Al Queda are not the representatives, the spokespeople, the example or the inspiration of Islam. Those who think they are ...  are mistaken. And their anger, their resentment are misplaced. Some of them are using it as an excuse to proudly display both their ignorance and their bigotry. However it falls short in the simplest of litmus tests.

Terrorism is a crime. Local and international. Someone rationalizing their terrorist act by claiming it represents their religion or patriotism does not make that religion nor the country they claim to patriotically represent at fault. If it did you'd have declared war on America or Christians the day the MacMurrah building in OKC blew. But since that was too hard to justify we'll just wait until the next Middle East terrorist group does something horrible so we can justify going after Islam or Middle Easterns, in their entirety.

Notice the Bush administration didn't declare Saudi Arabia as part of it's "axis of terror" nor did they declare war on S.A. Kinda hard to go against those you're in bed with.

No, lasersailor (heh), you're wrong. Wars are indeed won by fighting them smartly. So is the peace maintained. Wars are lost through stupidity (whether it be the declaration and justification or the prosecution or even the occupation).

Now study that history you're working so hard at repeating.

And no, editing someone else's religious texts and teachings wouldn't be productive, be it the Queran, the Christian Bible or the Torah. Deal with the radical elements who choose to interpret them to justify their hate and their actions.