Author Topic: BOB pilots dint do much!!!!  (Read 2407 times)

Offline SirLoin

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BOB pilots dint do much!!!!
« Reply #75 on: November 04, 2007, 12:33:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
....and still no recognition to the Polish Squadrons that really got the shaft.


The Poles knew what they were up against more so than the Brits..That's why they were the best sqd in the battle.
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Offline Masherbrum

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BOB pilots dint do much!!!!
« Reply #76 on: November 04, 2007, 12:40:09 PM »
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Originally posted by Angus
And why do you bind Monte Cassino and 1/9 1939 into the same sentence?
Read your post to which I replied in 2 sentences, not a single sentence as you refer.
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Offline Obie303

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BOB pilots dint do much!!!!
« Reply #77 on: November 05, 2007, 12:17:59 AM »
Angus, Mash, I think you're both talking about the same thing, just wording it differently.  I think we've hijacked this thread a little.  You two seem to know more than the average BBS subscriber regarding the contributions the Polish armed forces contributed.

Being of Polish decent myself, I've found the contributions by the Poles to be nothing short of astonishing.  Some interesting links are:

http://info-poland.buffalo.edu/web/history/WWII/britain/link.shtml

http://www.ww2.pl/?

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/9764/warpoland.html

And to prove that I'm still learning things, I never knew that a Polish soldier was the first to make a working prototype mine detector!  Hope everyone enjoys the websites.  

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I have fought a good fight,
I have finished my course,
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Offline ramzey

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BOB pilots dint do much!!!!
« Reply #78 on: November 05, 2007, 02:27:53 AM »
last link you provide have picture of africa corps troops signed as "Polish troops", lol

Offline Angus

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« Reply #79 on: November 05, 2007, 03:04:34 AM »
Polish mathematicians also were the first to read Enigma ;)
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Obie303

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BOB pilots dint do much!!!!
« Reply #80 on: November 05, 2007, 03:33:35 AM »
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Originally posted by ramzey
last link you provide have picture of africa corps troops signed as "Polish troops", lol


I noticed that too!  Stupid Pentagon web-site!  Maybe that was a Pole racing by on the motorcycle in the background?  :D

Obie
I have fought a good fight,
I have finished my course,
I have kept the faith.
(quote on a Polish pilot's grave marker in Nottinghamshire, England)

71 (Eagle) Squadron

Offline Viking

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BOB pilots dint do much!!!!
« Reply #81 on: November 05, 2007, 06:55:38 AM »
The Polish are the only ones to have successfully taken Moscow in a military campaign (in 1610). :lol

Offline Angus

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« Reply #82 on: November 05, 2007, 07:01:31 AM »
Hehe. But didn't old Bony take Moscow as well?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline ramzey

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« Reply #83 on: November 05, 2007, 07:16:30 AM »
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Originally posted by Angus
Hehe. But didn't old Bony take Moscow as well?


well, he walk in to abandon city, anyway Poles where with him as well......

Offline Angus

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« Reply #84 on: November 05, 2007, 12:11:36 PM »
Back to the BoB.
The Polish were held a bit back in the beginning. When did they enter at full force?
(Brimming with aggressiveness and lust for revenge no doubt)

And a little input from a RAF pilot who didn't like Poles in his squad, especially not as a wingman! He said that they were famous for going red-hot against any LW aircraft as son as seen, and that is not good latin, if you see (or especially don't see!) your wingman just diving away from you. Now, we can do this in AH, and maybe get away with it, - we will still live another day. But in RL....?
My point there is, was that also a factor when Poles were formed rather in entire squad? (of course moral etc etc, but language really comes MUCH slower that way. I know Poles that have been in my country for up to 10 years, and NEITHER master our native language, nor English!!!! Just Polish and some broken basics.)

Always good to ponder on things I think.

And as a sidenote, weren't the Poles mostly quite experienced fighter pilots (apart from fast birds like the Spitty)? More or less, and had already been fighting the LW? Same goes to the Czhechs?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Hien

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BOB pilots dint do much!!!!
« Reply #85 on: November 05, 2007, 01:16:50 PM »
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Originally posted by Angus


And as a sidenote, weren't the Poles mostly quite experienced fighter pilots (apart from fast birds like the Spitty)? More or less, and had already been fighting the LW? Same goes to the Czhechs?



P11 to AH!!!1
(I'm suprised I'm the first one in here to say it...)

From what I've read, yes, they did quite well against the LW while being taken over by Germany.  

From Wikipedia...
Quote

By 1 September 1939, the fighter squadrons had been deployed to remote airfields, so they were not bombed by the Germans. During the Polish campaign, the P.11 fought against more modern German bombers and fighters. Not only were the German Messerschmitt Bf 109 and Bf 110 faster and better armed, but also most German bombers were faster. Since the P.11 fighters were intensively used, their maximum speed was even lower than the theoretical 375 km/h. The P.11a were in an even worse condition. Another serious deficiency was their small number which meant that missions involving groups larger than about 20 planes were rarely accomplished and reserve machines were practically unavailable.

On the other hand, the Polish planes had better manoeuvrability and because of their design, had much better vision from the cockpit than the German planes. The P.11 had a strong construction, good rate of climb and could operate from short fields, even rough ones. It was also of a very durable construction and could dive at up to 600 km/h without risk of the wings falling apart. Theoretically the only limit in manoeuvres was the pilot's ability to sustain high g forces. Despite the German superiority, the P.11 managed to shoot down a considerable number of German aircraft, including fighters, but suffered heavy losses as well. The exact numbers are not fully verified, but it appears that at least one German plane shot down for each P.11 lost (a figure of 141 German planes is often given as compared with 118 planes lost).

At dawn on 1 September, Capt. Mieczys³aw Medwecki flying a PZL P.11c was shot down by a German Ju 87, having the dubious honour of becoming the first aircraft shot down in the Second World War. The first Allied air victory was achieved 20 minutes later by Medwecki's wingman, Wladyslaw Gnys who shot down two Dornier Do 17s with his P.11c. The PZL P.11c was also the first airplane to successfully ram an enemy plane in the Second World War. The first large air battle of the Second World War took place in the early morning of 1 September over the city of Nieporêt in North-Western Poland when a German bomber group of about 70 Heinkel He 111 and Dornier Do 17 was intercepted by some 20 P.11 and 10 P.7 fighters and had to abandon their mission to Warsaw.




Not sure if its accurate, but it sounds pretty good to me.  :O

Offline Angus

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« Reply #86 on: November 05, 2007, 02:38:22 PM »
Hehe, killing 2 Dorniers in that is quite a feat!

However, the P-11 top diving speed is not far from Spit I's flat out level speed...Even Hurricanes would see more than 500 mph on their gauges from time to time in a dive.....

Anyway, many interesting Polish pilots, names like Skalsky come to mind.
And the Czech....
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline ramzey

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BOB pilots dint do much!!!!
« Reply #87 on: November 05, 2007, 09:09:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
Back to the BoB.
The Polish were held a bit back in the beginning. When did they enter at full force?
(Brimming with aggressiveness and lust for revenge no doubt)

And a little input from a RAF pilot who didn't like Poles in his squad, especially not as a wingman! He said that they were famous for going red-hot against any LW aircraft as son as seen, and that is not good latin, if you see (or especially don't see!) your wingman just diving away from you. Now, we can do this in AH, and maybe get away with it, - we will still live another day. But in RL....?
My point there is, was that also a factor when Poles were formed rather in entire squad? (of course moral etc etc, but language really comes MUCH slower that way. I know Poles that have been in my country for up to 10 years, and NEITHER master our native language, nor English!!!! Just Polish and some broken basics.)

Always good to ponder on things I think.

And as a sidenote, weren't the Poles mostly quite experienced fighter pilots (apart from fast birds like the Spitty)? More or less, and had already been fighting the LW? Same goes to the Czhechs?




are you trying to insult Poles?

Polish AF was 3rd force in a row of western allies, after USAF and RAF

Some does not like Polish troops in British squadrons, sure.
Some of RAF pilots does not like Canadians, Australians, South Africans, Indians as well.
Hot head? don't think so. Those who where send as replacement for RAF squad had at list good knowledge of English, as well as mastered air-air combat. Most of them had already couple  confirmed aerial victories. They know how to do the job.
Many of them start service in June of 1940.

Mby experienced in air combat pilots don't like to be slaughter as RAF pilots was. Flying wingtip to wingtip coses many unnecessary RAF losses.
Oh, thats long story. It cost many life's
But could be tweak in to  "bad Polish wingman" story.

More, ever heard of 4 finger formation?

Those of Polish pilots who had very basic knowledge of English (mostly cuz they learn French as they second language), where group in Polish squadrons under RAF command (303rd, 302nd and more).

During the Battle of Britain, between August 30th and October 11th, No. 303 Squadron tallied 126 enemy aircraft destroyed, 13 probably destroyed and 9 damaged.


Quote

I  know Poles that have been in my country for up to 10 years, and NEITHER master our native language, nor English!!!! Just Polish and some broken basics.)



If they don't have reason for that, why bother? Also some people are brighter then others, i guess none of them are rocket scientist but regular workers, right? In this kind of work witch don't require sophisticated knowledge of your language.

Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: BOB pilots dint do much!!!!
« Reply #88 on: November 05, 2007, 09:15:13 PM »
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Originally posted by rogerdee
He clamed that most of the pilots  envolved were porly trained ,could hardly fly straight and couldn't hit a barn door with a cow.


He probably doesn't understand that not flying straight is right out of Manfred's handbook, and someone who could hit a barn door with a cow: I wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley.
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Offline Masherbrum

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BOB pilots dint do much!!!!
« Reply #89 on: November 05, 2007, 09:52:13 PM »
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Originally posted by Obie303
Angus, Mash, I think you're both talking about the same thing, just wording it differently.  I think we've hijacked this thread a little.  You two seem to know more than the average BBS subscriber regarding the contributions the Polish armed forces contributed.

Being of Polish decent myself, I've found the contributions by the Poles to be nothing short of astonishing.  Some interesting links are:

http://info-poland.buffalo.edu/web/history/WWII/britain/link.shtml

http://www.ww2.pl/?

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/9764/warpoland.html

And to prove that I'm still learning things, I never knew that a Polish soldier was the first to make a working prototype mine detector!  Hope everyone enjoys the websites.  

Obie
I'm also of Polish descent.   Until I mentioned the Poles, they again, were just left out.    BoB wasn't just "Britain vs Germany".  

Obie, I've read a few accounts on the events leading up to the bombing of Warsaw.    Polish pilots would run their PZL.11's out of ammo and ram Ju88's.

But it was for naught eventually.   The Allies made a deal with the Devil and sold out the very country in exile that fought with everything to lose.
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