« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: Invisible Mozzy  (Read 1349 times)

Offline Cypher

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 243
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2007, 03:01:04 PM »
Didn't some of those old radars detect just masses of metal in the air?
Logged

Offline OOZ662

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7019
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2007, 03:37:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Cypher
Didn't some of those old radars detect just masses of metal in the air?


What do you call a P-51? :D
Logged
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline clerick

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1742
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2007, 04:02:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Cypher
Didn't some of those old radars detect just masses of metal in the air?


IIRC there were instances where chaff was dropped to confuse the enemy... but my memory could be faulty.
Logged

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2007, 05:19:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by clerick
IIRC there were instances where chaff was dropped to confuse the enemy... but my memory could be faulty.

"Window"

Was strips of foil tossed or dropped out of bombers to confuse German radars.  Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.
Logged
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Iron_Cross

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 431
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2007, 10:14:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
"Window"

Was strips of foil tossed or dropped out of bombers to confuse German radars.  Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.


Window worked in the beginning, but as the radar operators wised up and focused on targets that moved, it became less effective.  Also this is why CW radar was developed.  CW radar only sees moving targets, not stationary ones like Chaff/Window.  I have first hand experience with both pulsed radar and CW radar tracking of planes under combat conditions.  The difference is like night and day.  While one scope was a virtual white-out, the other saw three planes dropping chaff.
Logged

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2007, 11:50:22 AM »
Yup.  It dropped in effectiveness as the war progressed.  It wasn't hard to figure out what had happened, what, with the sudden appearance of foil strips all over the countryside.

The first night they used it was a smashing success.  So much so that some crews thought they had it made from that point out.
Logged
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline bozon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6037
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2007, 10:23:42 AM »
Radar and EW is a game of cat and mouse. The EW is only as good as the surprise it prepares for the radar technology and operators. Then they find a way to cope with it till a new EW method is invented. The is why EW and counter-EW capabilities are one of the best kept secrets in the arsenal and are very restricted in their usage in training to keep them as such.

btw, this is why I seriously believe radar guided missiles are way overrated. They are not useless, but not very high kill probability either. The IAF had a bad experience with them due to EW counter measures. Missiles improved, but so did the EW which is kept as a surprise.

The "windows" were just the first move in the game. Jamming spoofing and decoy methods were all developed used in WWII.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 10:29:16 AM by bozon »
Logged
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Stoney74

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1439
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2007, 08:44:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bozon
btw, this is why I seriously believe radar guided missiles are way overrated.


Up until I got out, the AMRAAM had a 100% kill rate in combat.
Logged

Offline Gaidin

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1191
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2007, 05:00:03 AM »
if you want the Mossie to not show up on  radar, stay below 200 feet of ground lvl.
Logged
Death is but a doorway to life, only those who fear life fear its opening.

Ingame: 68Gaidin

Proud Member of the CM Team
FSO - Admin

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2007, 08:24:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gaidin
if you want the Mossie to not show up on  radar, stay below 200 feet of ground lvl.


Under 500 works too ;)
Logged
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline humble

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6434
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2007, 08:55:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stoney74
Up until I got out, the AMRAAM had a 100% kill rate in combat.


To borrow a line from Dos Gringos....

"Fox 3, the only friend you'll ever need"...
Logged

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline bozon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6037
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2007, 04:13:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stoney74
Up until I got out, the AMRAAM had a 100% kill rate in combat.

Combat vs. who exactly? 30+ year old Iraqi mig 21s?
Logged
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Stoney74

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1439
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2007, 07:29:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bozon
Combat vs. who exactly? 30+ year old Iraqi mig 21s?


I'm sure a few of them were Iraqi's that can't be counted as competitive kills and I can't remember all of the shoot-downs exactly except a few.  1 of course, was the Blackhawk shot down over northern Iraq by F-15's.  Two I remember vividly when I personally listened to two Dutch F-16's down two Serbian Mig-29's with two Fox-3 calls, over Belgrade one night back in the Spring of '99.  The Mig's were up to fight, not run.  Comparing Serbian Mig-29's and Dutch F-16's is a more competitive match up.  The pilot scored two kills about 30 seconds apart.
Logged

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9891
Invisible Mozzy
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2007, 08:27:15 PM »
Didn't some AMRAAM's miss some Mig-25's in 1999?
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
« previous next »