Few More ?'s

[DoNKeY]

1) First off, what gv's are able to actually be killed by 50 .cal fire?  I know jeeps can be, but not tanks obviously, and I'm not talking about hosing a gv and then waiting for someone else to finish them and then "steal" the kill.

2) Secondly, I was trying to get my second throttle on my saitek av8t or whatever its called to work as my flap controls instead of the switches I have on my controller, since my other hand is already hovering over the throttle anyways.  (Not sure if I can, but it would make stuff easier).  Anyway, I went to controller setup, and highlighted it to modify it, and was given a few choices, but none of what I wanted.  Is there anyway else to be able to do this, because I thought I have heard of people with x52's or w/e doing this.

3) If I have my 50's converged at 275,300,325 outside in, what is my max effective range in terms of a short leading shot, deflection, and then maybe coming in on bombers from above, and aiming for wing/cockpit?

4) How do skins actually make it into MA's, etc.  Does HTC take a look, and if they like it better than one already available they replace it or what?  How long before they do this?

Might have some more later.

Thanks a bunch guys.


donkey

[goober69]

1. goons can be killed by .50s and the american ack veh the one with the 4 .50s basicaly just the light armored ones i think you might track a tank with 50s but i dunno

2 no idea at all

3. id say no more that 375-425 for most effective all my planes are set d-350 at point wehen straffing bombers i open up when the range says six and usualy stop firing around 200 with cannons i open up a little closer say a second or two after range indicates 600 which would be in 500- 400 range

4. no idea

[Lusche]

1) You can outright kill Jeep, M3, M16, LVT's. To my knowledge you can also kill M8, but it's not always that easy. You an easily shred a Ostwind turret, if you get a kill for it, it's absolutely ok in my book.

You can get kill credit for every other tank, including tiger or t34. That's because of some glitch in damage modelling. Basically the damage you do to the tracks (besides pintle gun the only damage component for .50cals) counts toward kill credit determination.
Strafing tanks with .50cals or even 20mm thus is considered some kind of killstealing by many players.


2) If the your stick is programmed with the same software as other Saitek sticks (SST ??), it should be possible, but not perfect. You have to split the throttle axis into 3 distinct parts. Then you can assign "q" to the upper band, "W" wo the lower one. Now if you push up/fwd throttle, it is as if you would hit Q key, if you pull it back it's like pressing W. A neutral middle position would be exactly this.

3) I can only say I have convergence at 350 and shoot for buff cockpits at quite long ranges, from 800yds on.

4) Yes, HTC does take a look, as you have to prove it's a historical one. I don't know about the criterias on replacing already existing skins. And how long it does take? According what I heard from a few skinners, anywhere betwees two weeks and (perceived) years

[Latrobe]

1) M8's, jeeps, m3s all easily die to 50 cals. LVTs, Pnzrs, M4's, osti's, T34's take a little while but they will die eventually to 50cals. Tiger tanks (if you have a few hours to spare and a couple thousand 50cals at hand) will die to 50cals, but it is extremly hard.

2) Don't use that stick

3) With those convergences it be best to shoot at 0-400 (600 tops). If you want someone to turn then you can aim just above their plane (when straight and level) and let of a short burst: you will hit them.

4) Not quite sure, someone will come along soon enough to answer this one.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Latrobe
1) Pnzrs, M4's, (...) T34's take a little while but they will die eventually to 50cals.

I want to see a film of that.

A T34 eventually dies because it's pilot towers out for whatever reason, or (usually) because someone else kills it with an appropriate weapon. But not because of .50cal rounds bouncing off from its armor.

[Murdr]

Oh good, Lusche already stopped by........let's see...


4.  skin submission

3. Here are some pictures to help visualize different convergence layouts...

Single convergence point.  And Staggered range (outside in)


Staggered range (outside out)


More at http://trainers.hitechcreations.com

[DoNKeY]

If you had to pick between the two layouts for the nonsingle point convergence, which one would you guys pick?  Then between that one and the single point?


donkey

Thanks so far guys.

Oh, and for the flaps thing, I was thinking along the lines of all the way forward was 0 deg flaps, then a little ways down/back was first setting, then second, and so forth.  Then when you moved it back forward it would raise flaps depending on where it was.  So is there  a way to do this, or at least do it your way, and if so is there somewhere with a walk through??

[Lusche]

Originally posted by DoNKeY

Oh, and for the flaps thing, I was thinking along the lines of all the way forward was 0 deg flaps, then a little ways down/back was first setting, then second, and so forth.  

That's not possible with the stick's programming software. It would only be possible if there was a kind
of "analog input flaps" axis in AH, which isn't there.

You can only get the thottle to simulate key pressings (sp?), like I said above.
Sadly, I can't tell you the exat way how to do it, because I use a german language version of that SST software  - and I don't even know if the Aviator uses SST ...

[Karnak]

50 cals cannot kill tanks in AH.

Tank armor is not modeled in a way such as:

T-34's front plate has 10,000 points and a 50 call round does 2 points/hit.  After 5,000 hits the tank dies.


It is modeled in such a way that the 50 cal round simply does no damage and bounces off.  Thus 1,000,000 50 cal rounds later you would still have a T-34 sitting there with rounds bouncing off of its unharmed front plate.

[DoNKeY]

Sorry, yes it does use the SST software.

donkey

[Latrobe]

Originally posted by Lusche
I want to see a film of that.

A T34 eventually dies because it's pilot towers out for whatever reason, or (usually) because someone else kills it with an appropriate weapon. But not because of .50cal rounds bouncing off from its armor.

I've been on the receiving end it a few times. Someone comes in a P-51, they use jut about (or all) of their ammo and I die. No ack, no enemy gvs, no B-25's or bombs. Shoot something enough times and it'll die.

[goober69]

yes cause i have been kia multiple times in a panzer when i got tracked and then several mg and small cannon planes repeatedly strafed me while i was wainting for suplies
no ord hit me no eneme tank just guns ord was down on the base

[mtnman]

Originally posted by DoNKeY
If you had to pick between the two layouts for the nonsingle point convergence, which one would you guys pick?  Then between that one and the single point?


donkey

Thanks so far guys.

Oh, and for the flaps thing, I was thinking along the lines of all the way forward was 0 deg flaps, then a little ways down/back was first setting, then second, and so forth.  Then when you moved it back forward it would raise flaps depending on where it was.  So is there  a way to do this, or at least do it your way, and if so is there somewhere with a walk through??

On the flaps idea-  if you can go in and program it in SST to recognize that second throttle as a "button" or "key" it should work.  If not, I doubt it.  At least I should say I haven't been able to figure it out yet...

On the convergence-  I prefer the single point convergence myself.  I only shoot .50's, and find I need lots of bullets hitting a small spot to make kills quickly.  Less than 1 second on fighters, and one pass kills on bombers are the norm (I shoot for the wing roots on bombers).

I set mine at 275.  When I am closing on a plane and the counter switches from D400 to D200, I'm at 299 yards.  Allow a brief aiming period, and I'm squeezing the trigger at 275 yards, which is where my convergence is set.

The requirements for killing bombers are the same as for killing fighters.  Enough firepower placed in the right spot.  Why shoot from too much further away?  Drop in from above, and shoot the right drone in the shoulder, he'll catch fire.  Zoom back up, come over the top a little lazily, and the right drone will "pop".  Drop back in and repeat on the left drone.  Then clean up the lead.  Bombers are big targets (easy to hit), and catch fire easily.  That will allow you to be a little sloppy about firing at convergence.  I generally start firing on bombers from about D400, getting some hits and allowing me to "walk" my bullets onto the wing root/engine area by the time I hit D200.  Other weak points on the bombers are the wingtips and cockpit.  I may switch to one of those if my initial pass is a bit "off".  Don't attack from behind them!  Attack from above and from one side or the other.

MtnMan

[mtnman]

Another convergence-related consideration when attacking bombers is the convergence of the bombers guns themselves.  In the old days, we used to be able to set the bomber gunners convergence, so that the drones guns crossed the leads at a certain point.  Most folks seemed to set them all the way out at 750(?) yards.  I don't believe we can do that anymore, and I think they may be preset at 600yards (?).  Maybe someone else can clarify.

Anyway- the point is that it would not be great strategy to set your fighter convergence to attempt to get kills from nearly this same distance.  It puts you firing from right where you are in the most danger of being killed.
Firing from further than this distance reduces the destructive power of your bullets, so it is logical to try to fire from closer in, where you're both "safer", and more effective.

Also, remember that the drone guns don't shoot at you!  They shoot at a point (convergence) 600 (?) yards from the lead gun!  This means that the drone guns can only point at you if you are 600 back from the lead!  So don't put yourself there.  If you're shooting from the side of the formation, with the lead buff aiming at you, the drones guns are not pointing at you.  They're pointed somewhere behind you.  You can even make it worse on the bomber pilot if you can place one of the drones between you and him, as the bomber guns don't fire through each other.

Attacking from a side reduces the number of guns firing directly toward you, and allows you to shoot from the "fringes" of the bombers cone of fire, rather than from the center.  It also makes it more difficult for the bomber gunner to get the correct lead for his shot.  Of course the bomber may have a gunner riding with him, or he may switch to the bomber closest to you, but those can still be dealt with and are a rarity.

What does this have to do with your question?

You asked- 3) If I have my 50's converged at 275,300,325 outside in, what is my max effective range in terms of a short leading shot, deflection, and then maybe coming in on bombers from above, and aiming for wing/cockpit?

Don't necessarily think in terms of "max effective range" and hope to get kills from there.  Maybe the "max effective range" also happens to be the same range you're most likely to get killed from?  Max effective range might be a good thing to know, but I'd put more emphasis on "MOST effective range" myself...

MtnMan

[Chapel]

SST Throttle...

What you can do is set your bands so that you have 5-8 different bands, and then assign the same key (Q or W) to the top set of bands, and then set the lower bands to the other key. So when you pull your throttle back you'll be engaging the key each band.

So in a 6 band setting, you'd set the top 3 bands to Q and the bottom 3 bands to W. It's not perfect, but would be kinda fun I suppose.