Author Topic: Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements  (Read 1407 times)

Offline Halo

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3222
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« on: January 28, 2008, 11:42:32 AM »
We know quite a few people who have divorced, and their experiences vary widely as you probably would expect.  Another person we know is getting divorced and is asking for advice beyond what will be received from paid mediators, arbitrators, lawyers, and the courts.  

After researching more and thinking more about divorces we know, we're unable to find many specific formulas for dividing marriage assets beyond the general 50-50 community property split many states require.  

Nevertheless, I'm thinking there should be some general principles.  For discussion, here are some.  What do you think?  How would you modify them to be the most fair and equitable?  All of these in effect are prefaced by "IN GENERAL, AS A STARTING POINT FOR FINE TUNING:"

1.  Husband and wife property should be divided as close as possible to 50-50, i.e., half to each.  

a. Many states apparently start with this principle.  This gets challenging if, for example, a young woman marries an old rich man and divorces him after only a year or two.  

b.  Sure, prenups probably would negate gold digging in a savvy union, but lots of unions are not that well thought out.

2.  Children should be provided for until age 18, i.e., until completing high school or equivalent.  This supposes children are NOT owed any college education or post high school training by their parents.  Some people think children should be supported until age 21.  What do you think?  

3.  Any alimony (allowance for living expenses from one spouse to the other) should start at the effective date of their living apart and terminate after the years in divorce equal the years in marriage, e.g., if married 12 years, alimony for no longer than 12 years.  

a.  This fundamental fairness negates controversial issues about paying alimony for life and questions about remarriage or cohabitation.

b.  For example, if a husband and wife divorce after 10 years of marriage, with no children, and he makes $40,000 a year and she makes $80,000 a year, she would pay him $20,000 a year (so they both would have $60,000 a year) for 10 years and no longer, no matter whether either remarries or lives with anyone else.  

4.  Both parties must expect the reverse of the synergy achieved by marriage, i.e., if 1+1=3 in combining assets through marriage, divorce will feel like less than the 1 each partner contributed to the union. This often means the primary residence must be sold with both husband and wife then relegated to smaller houses, condos, or apartments.

5.  For child asset percentage allocation, generally consider 10% per child up to five children.  For example:

a.  Husband 50%, wife 50%

b.  Husband 45%, wife 45%
One child 10%

c.  Husband 40%, wife 40%
Two children 20% (10% each)

d.   Husband 35%, wife 35%
Three children 30% (10% each)

e.  Husband 30%, wife 30%
Four children 40% (10% each)

f.  Husband 25%, wife 25%
Five children 50% (10% each)

6.  Child custody (until the child reaches age 18) thus alters household percentages like these examples:

a.  Husband custody of two children
Husband 60%, wife 40%

b.  Wife custody of three children
Husband 35%, wife 65%

(1)  For easiest visualization, if the husband makes $100,000 a year and the wife has no income, if she gets custody of their three children, he would be paying her $65,000 alimony a year and he would retain $35,000 a year.  

(2)  If the husband got custody of two children and the wife custody of one child, he would retain $55,000 a year and the wife $45,000.  

c.  As each child reaches the age of 18, the 10% for that child reverts to 5% added to each parent's settlement as part of the general 50-50 split for marriage assets that was used as a starting point before considering children of the marriage.  

(1)  For example, when the oldest of the two children living with the father reaches 18, the father's $55,000 a year decreases 5% to $50,000 a year while the mother's $45,000 increases to $50,000 since each has one child still in his or her custody.    

7.  The 50-50 initial property split would be as of the effective date of the divorce.  Usually this requires selling the house or one spouse buying out the other spouse's share in the overall settlement.  

8.  The alimony would be determined by the average of the family's gross annual income for the past five years as shown on their federal income tax returns.  For example, $50,000 + $60,000 + $45,000 +$75,000 +$90,000 = $320,000 / 5 = $64,000 to be the base figure for computing annual alimony  for as many years as the marriage lasted.  

a.  For example, this $64,000 would be $32,000 each for husband and wife in the initial 50-50 division.

b.  Any children would alter the alimony 10% each depending which parent had custody, e.g., one child living with the mother would be (see 5b) father having 45% ($28,800) and the mother having 55% ($35,200).

9.  Although either party could apply or file for readjustment of alimony after the divorce, generally these principles would prevail as fairest to all concerned for the rest of their lives.  Assets such as property or income acquired after the divorce should NOT be retrofitted into the divorce settlement, i.e., neither party could draw additional resources from the other that were gained after the split.  

What do you think?  Based on your experience with divorces, either personal or with friends or family, are these principles reasonable or unreasonable?  Which if any should be changed, and how?  What others would you add?
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. (Seneca, 1st century AD, et al)
Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty. (Anne Herbert, 1982, Sausalito, CA)
Paramedic to Perkaholics Anonymous

Offline DREDIOCK

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17773
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2008, 12:23:02 PM »
And thats only part of the complications that can arise

Safe to say if you make 100K per year and wifey doesnt work.
Its not in your best interests to get divorced LOL

Oh and here in Jersey. If your kid goes to college.
the parents are still responcable for child support of that kid. including his education.

Between tuition and books It costs us about 18K per year for our son to attend Rutgers
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 12:25:19 PM by DREDIOCK »
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2008, 12:28:59 PM »
I don't understand number 5.

Is this stating that children are entitled to a percentage of family assets?

If so, I disagree.
sand

Offline DREDIOCK

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17773
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2008, 12:32:13 PM »
I beleive what he is saying is that is the amount that is supposedly to be allocated to the raising of the kids. food,clothing etc.
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Halo

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3222
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2008, 01:20:19 PM »
Thanks, Drediock, that's what I meant in No. 5.  

Thanks also for the college input.  College and whether age 18 or 21 for cutoff are among the greatest puzzles to me.  

College is so expensive it has always struck me as a bonus and not an entitlement.  

But if people generally think kids should be supported until age 21 instead of 18, college would be more of factor in divorce settlements.
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. (Seneca, 1st century AD, et al)
Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty. (Anne Herbert, 1982, Sausalito, CA)
Paramedic to Perkaholics Anonymous

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2008, 02:12:27 PM »
The very first thing you need to do is to make Men and Women equal.  This sounds like a given, but it really isn't.  As of right now, Men have little or no court given rights in anything.  The court could even hold a trial without informing the husband, as decided by the the higher supreme courts.

The Husbands are assumed to be dead-beat dads and never given the chance or choice to change this.  Instead of Innocent until Proven Guilty, They are guilty because they have a noodle.


Once you've set this clear, then you can proceed.


Next, get rid of the Family Courts.  When the Child Support Services controls the courts, they will rule how they see fit, regardless of law or reality.  Set up another branch of the court that can be in no way connected to Child Support Services.


Next, alimony to EITHER party goes on for at maximum a year, or until they get a job.  If they don't have a job at the end of the year, they get their lazy tulips cut off.

Next, child support and child's medical support isn't to be a presupposed cost.  The Cost of both will be split AFTER the fact when presented with a bill for costs.  Child Support goes until the kid hits 18, or has graduated highschool.

Next, child custody is not presupposed.  


Once you have done all those things, then you have a good base for equitable divorce proceedings.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2008, 02:18:47 PM »
Well, I work as a lawyer, and I do almost exclusively custody battles and divorces. Those ideas are completely unreasonable, for lots of reasons, but mainly because they seem to be taking some sort of common sense approach based on your belief of right and wrong. In reality the situation is vastly more complex than that.

Some general pointers
1) In a custody battle you dont really want to split up the kids "you take one and I take two" is not really in the best interest of the kids.

2) Lets just say that if a 10-year marriage ends because the stay-home-wife was cheating with the neighbour, the hubby might be reluctant to pay her half his income for 10 years.

3) Alimony = evil. The idea that one spouse should pay money to the other spouse after the divorce and the separation of the common economy is a communist idea and as such it is both evil and stupid. I simply do not understand why one spouse should pay for the other AFTER the divorce. The idea that one spouse has stayed at home and the other has worked and thus earned more money is something that is settled in the divorce, where both spouses divide the shared wealth of the marriage.

Offline BBBB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 696
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2008, 02:27:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Well, I work as a lawyer, and I do almost exclusively custody battles and divorces. Those ideas are completely unreasonable, for lots of reasons, but mainly because they seem to be taking some sort of common sense approach based on your belief of right and wrong. In reality the situation is vastly more complex than that.


 It is only complex so that a attorney can charge 100-300 dollars and hour to sort it all out for the rest of us. The system does not have to be complex, in any form. It is kept that way for the sake of dollars and cents. The court system (in this country at least) is a industry. Just one big industry.

Offline texasmom

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6078
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2008, 02:37:02 PM »
I need an aspirin after having read this thread.
<S> Easy8
<S> Mac

Offline BBBB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 696
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2008, 02:39:56 PM »
I think this is a great thread. It points out a major issue in America. Women want equal rights to vote and in the work place, but when it comes to the courts a good majority of them like to play the babe in the woods routine. If women want equal rights, then they should have deal with every part of that "equal".
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 02:58:04 PM by BBBB »

Offline AWMac

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9251
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2008, 02:43:23 PM »
This February 29th *Leap Day* will be 28 Years of marriage. W00T!!!

:aok

Mac

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2008, 02:45:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BBBB
It is only complex so that a attorney can charge 100-300 dollars and hour to sort it all out for the rest of us. The system does not have to be complex, in any form. It is kept that way for the sake of dollars and cents. The court system (in this country at least) is a industry. Just one big industry.


No, its complex so it can be flexible. It needs to be flexible so it can take into consideration all the myriads of things that have led up to the divorce and custody fight. A legal system with a binary mechanism will look like a veterinarians treatment list for horses (if ill=shoot it, if healthy =leave it alone) or the judicial system of Saudia Arabia.

A legal system for such a vastly complex entity as our western civilization needs to be able to handle different situations in different manners. And if you think lawyers in this field is in it for the money LOL dude...the money is oh so not worth it.

The legal system in any nation takes a lot of time to learn how to understand and master. That is why it costs money to go to a lawyer (ie someone who has learned to master it). You can either learn it yourself, or if you dont want to spend that time and effort, then you have to pay. Welcome to capitalism.

Offline BBBB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 696
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2008, 02:45:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
This February 29th *Leap Day* will be 28 Years of marriage. W00T!!!

:aok

Mac


 Congrats. I hope I make it that long. Sometimes I question it though.

Offline texasmom

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6078
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2008, 02:50:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BBBB
Your input is appreciated. Thanks for playing. :aok I think this is a great thread. It points out a major issue in America. Women want equal rights to vote and in the work place, but when it comes to the courts a good majority of them like to play the babe in the woods routine. If women want equal rights, then they should have deal with every part of that "equal".

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful or anything.  I have a hard time wrapping my mind around being in a state of mind that would facilitate that kind of drastic act (divorce), or the hate that generally comes along with it.  I do have some very strong opinions about some of the other stuff mentioned in the other posts. I don't think I'll share them though :)
<S> Easy8
<S> Mac

Offline BBBB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 696
Basic Principles of Divorce Settlements
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2008, 02:53:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
And if you think lawyers in this field is in it for the money LOL dude...the money is oh so not worth it.


 Your joking right? Maybe in your country, over here lawyers make more than enough money to make it well, well, worth it. I have a few family attorneys in my family. They are all about the money, they have a ton of it.

 A system can be fair, flexible and still be simple to understand. The only argument I have ever heard from a Lawyer for justification of their profession is the complexity of the legal system. That seems to be the old fall back for lawyers.

 The system does not have to be as simple as you pointed out. You took the words "simple" and "streamlined" and dumbed the down to a school grade level to prove your point. In reality if judges were allowed to really exercise moral judgment, instead of following a complex worded book to come up with a ruling, the system would be streamlined, simple and for the most part fair.