Ethanol Production causes harms the environment!

[john9001]

every thing you make from oil you can make from coal, and the USA has 300 years supply of coal.

[C(Sea)Bass]

Originally posted by john9001
every thing you make from oil you can make from coal, and the USA has 300 years supply of coal.

It's very expensive to make synthetics from coal though, do you want to pay $10 for gas?

[indy007]

Originally posted by Ghosth
MARK MY WORDS, and mark them well.

[Ghosth]

As seen on Discovery channel, take 10% of the state of Nevada (80 % already owned by the goverment) Bulldoze it flat, and put it to Solar energy production.

You could produce all the electricity needed here in the US.

Same thing with Nebraska and wind generators.
All renewable resources, sun shines every day for a few million years yet.
Wind in North Dakota - Nebraska blows more days than not.
Yes it would cost a lot up front. But thats the kind of building that grows an economy, provides jobs.

Does this solve the oil problem? Only if the government mandated that we have 5 years to get every gas burning car off the road. Will it ever happen? Not in our lifetimes, too much money from big oil gets spent to too many people in charge.

As to the whole food situation, the problem is overpopulation.
Deal with the problem and the food situation is manageable.
Fail to deal with it, and yes we will all have a problem some day soon.

However I figure most of the Chinese will drown trying to get to Australia.
Just leaves the horde south of the border to worry about.

(yes that was a Joke btw)

[john9001]

Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
It's very expensive to make synthetics from coal though, do you want to pay $10 for gas?

do you want $10 gas or no gas?

but seriously, the cost of syn gas from coal is about the same as gas from oil , just have to build more plants.

[EagleDNY]

Originally posted by Angus
So, Eagle,- the ethanol production is basically a business-related issue as I understand it. Doesn't surprize me, - not the first time that short-term business related issues override long-term common sense.

 

The provision of fuel to consumers for transportation is a business, whether it is gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel, or biofuels like ethanol.  The main question for me is who I do the business with - American farmers or middle eastern / south american dictators.  I don't blame the farmers for seeing a business opportunity in being ethanol providers, after all - it is their corn, and I don't remember many people crying for the farmers when the price of corn was too low for them to make any money on it.

The long term common sense is that we have to get off oil - for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that we are giving vast amounts of money to some not very nice people.  The vast wealth we are transferring to the Russians, Saudis, Iranians, Venezuelans, etc. is being used against us, and it is high time we did something about it.

I'm thinking I can trust the farmers to figure out the best business model for the biofuels industry, whether it be soybeans for biodiesel, or switch grass based ethanol, or some kind of genetically engineered corn that makes gobs of sugar for more efficient conversion - they'll figure it out.  In the meantime, I'm OK with giving the industry some tax breaks (especially since I am of the opinion that we pay plenty of taxes already), especially if it helps fund the research to make it all work more efficiently.

EagleDNY
$.02 more

[EagleDNY]

Originally posted by Ghosth
As seen on Discovery channel, take 10% of the state of Nevada (80 % already owned by the goverment) Bulldoze it flat, and put it to Solar energy production.

You could produce all the electricity needed here in the US.

True, but how do you get that electricity to where it needs to go?  Transferring that electricity from Nevada to say, North Carolina isn't really practical (or you can be darn sure someone would have figured out how to make a $ doing it).

I think it is more likely that we could distribute the electrical grid by putting solar cells on pretty much every rooftop that gets good sunlight.  Think of the "victory garden" concept - energy for america coming from every home in america.  

On a related note - I read yesterday that some smart nano-tech researchers have come up with a new type of solar cell that will also convert IR (and waste heat) back into electricity - testing estimates say the cells will be 80% efficient and they can print them onto junk plastic sheeting.  The problem they have to solve with this is that the AC current the thing produces is in the 10 Terahertz range, so they have to figure a way to step it down or convert it to DC current that they can put on the cells.  Give 'em time - they'll figure it out.

[C(Sea)Bass]

Originally posted by john9001
do you want $10 gas or no gas?

but seriously, the cost of syn gas from coal is about the same as gas from oil , just have to build more plants.

I want a real alternate energy source.

Nuclear Cars!!!

Or we could just invest in the railroads, bringing them back up to the size they had in the 1940's then put electrical cantenary wires on all the routes, and power the line with nuclear power. People would be able to take a train anywhere a car goes now for the most part, and cars could run off ethanol over the short distance required to reach a railroad station.

That's my idea, doubt it has much of a chance, but I think it would work very well.

Sorry for the temporary hi-jack there:D

[C(Sea)Bass]

Originally posted by EagleDNY
I think it is more likely that we could distribute the electrical grid by putting solar cells on pretty much every rooftop that gets good sunlight.  Think of the "victory garden" concept - energy for america coming from every home in america.  

On a related note - I read yesterday that some smart nano-tech researchers have come up with a new type of solar cell that will also convert IR (and waste heat) back into electricity - testing estimates say the cells will be 80% efficient and they can print them onto junk plastic sheeting.  The problem they have to solve with this is that the AC current the thing produces is in the 10 Terahertz range, so they have to figure a way to step it down or convert it to DC current that they can put on the cells.  Give 'em time - they'll figure it out.

Current solar technology is useless. More energy is used in building the panel than it will produce in its lifetime.

That looks interestin, if they can make efficent solar panels, it would be a reasonable idea to put them on buildings and homes every, and at least reduce energy consumption from other sources.