Author Topic: Japanese history help needed for flag translation (Read 750 times)

eagl · « **on:** February 13, 2008, 04:45:48 PM »

The 80 FTW at Sheppard AFB needs some help translating Japanese text off of a battle flag that is in our history collection.
Any help would be appreciated, whether it is pointing us to someone who can do the translation or sending us an actual translation.
Here is the image, and if necessary the wing historian can provide a better image.

Thanks!

DiabloTX · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:56:14 PM »

Rolex may be able to help you out. I am very interested in knowing what it says as well.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2008, 05:00:42 PM »

It says "Holy crap! Did you see that mushroom cloud? Now we get all TV business from invaders!"

DiabloTX · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2008, 07:44:16 PM »

TTT for Rolex.

Rolex · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2008, 08:13:46 PM »

You mailbox is full, eagl...

The flag was a gift from the person whose name is in larger letters along the right side from top to bottom, to the person whose name is in bold on top from left to right.

The recipient was Hisanaga Untake(?). The given name may be pronounced Untake. I am unsure because the kanji is very unusual and rarely seen today.

The presenter was Ii (something) Nobuo. The last half of the kanji for the family name is gone.

All the other kanji are names of people who signed it.

The purpose of the gift is unknown. There are a few names of the same family and even female names, so the flag may have been a gift from friends or school mates of Hisanaga san. That is just speculation, though.

eagl · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2008, 10:20:25 PM »

Thanks Rolex. I reset my email address to one that is more usable.

I'll pass along the info to our historian. If you have any more, possibly more ID of names and stuff, that might help as well.

To be honest, the second I looked at the flag it struck me how much it looked like our farewell lithographs, where we take a picture of a squadron aircraft and everyone signs the photo and the matting. I'm a bit suprised that my initial impression was correct, but the flag and it's meaning may be a universal sort of thing among military members, a gift from friends and/or loved ones to a departing warrior.

Thanks again.

eagl · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2008, 10:24:37 PM »

I got a bit more from the historian about what we know.

Quote

It is a WW II, Japanese, China-Burma-India, battle flag. This flag was provided morale for the troops, prior to entering into a battle. The history office is looking for anyone who could translate the unknown writing.(kanji, katakana).

I can put anyone with more information in touch with our historian, who is responsible for preserving this historic artifact and keeping it's "story" alive.

Rolex · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2008, 10:51:23 PM »

Not sure about it being a "battle flag." That sounds more impressive, I suppose. All the other characters are names, so I would agree with your initial impression, except that I believe that the signers were civilians. As I said, the female and several names from the same family leads me to think it was signed by friends and acquaintances and given to him before he left, or sent later.

I don't see it as having any greater special significance or historical value, other than the special meaning it had to the man it was taken from.

eagl · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2008, 10:58:04 PM »

I think you're right, although I think the significance as a historical artifact isn't diminished by it's personal nature. To me, that gives it a story and it's something a lot of people, especially US military members and veterans, can directly relate to.

FiLtH · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2008, 11:42:10 PM »

Its the 5000th flag made by Ito Textiles in Tokyo. The employees signed it.

Rolex · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2008, 11:54:14 PM »

I understand. I see no dates, locations, ranks, service branch, hometown or messages on the flag that can add to the story. That's all I can offer up, sorry.

Scherf · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2008, 02:24:39 AM »

Rolex et al:

I think the writing at the top is more of the "best wishes" variety - Kucho Unbu - last character looks like "setsu" - prayers or wishes? Unbu must be military - first of the two characters is the same as that for Army, second is Bushido no bu.

I think the flag has to be *to* I-something Nobuo, since the character "kun" is the last in line, diminutive for "-san".

Most times the people giving the flag appear bottom left corner or around the edges - can't see anything at first sight. Agreed re: the names, just folks who knew the man, assorted prayers for success etc.

Shuffler · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2008, 08:28:58 AM »

Interesting info...... all the same.

Rolex · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2008, 09:03:41 AM »

If you reversed those unbu kanji, that would mean "victorious," but I just don't see the kuchou. Kuchou, right? These old kanji usages are so hard because I'm not a linguistics professor (

), so I can only find these read as hisanaga in any dictionary. I'm curious how you read that as kuchou.

I can't come up with any meaning for the top that I'm confident is correct.

I agree that it is a gift to Nobuo san. Most of the names seem contemporary to his, so many of the signers may have been school friends wishing him well as he went off to join the military.

One message on the left means "Strength of a thousand people." One on the bottom says, "Best wishes (or good luck), Nobuo kun" One on the top left may be from a very close woman from the language (mother, grandmother or girlfriend) but one kanji (and therefore the meaning of what she is asking him to do) is unreadable.

Rolex · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2008, 01:32:23 AM »

Damn. I just figured it out.

The top characters on these flags were written to be read from the mast side of the flag outward - the right side in this case. It is done on Japanese ships and other vehicles, so the letters are read from the front of the vehicle to the rear. So, looking at a ship from the port side, the characters are read normally from left to right. Looking from the starboard side, the characters are reversed and read from right to left.

That's why I read it as "Hisanaga Untake" from left to right. It has no meaning other than a name.

In reality, it is read from right to left as "ki buun cho(u)kyu(u)."

That means a prayer for eternal luck in a fight, battle or competition.

Whew...