Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack

[Charge]

"Not really since his kills in the Stuka were a result of his gunner and he may have also scored a few of his 9 kills in the FW 190F-8 which he also flew."

Well, he shot down an IL-2 with those 37mms. The weapon effect was said to have been quite spectacular -even with AP.

-C+

[kilo2]

Not really since his kills in the Stuka were a result of his gunner and he may have also scored a few of his 9 kills in the FW 190F-8 which he also flew.

ack-ack

he scored 11, 9 in the dive bomber. Not all or most of his kills were the rear gunner and as stated he did destory a IL2 with the 37mms.

[321BAR]

Tank shoots me down with main gun ==> I hate that tanks ==> I somehow do my best to kill that tank ==> another tank gets in the way ==> I either kill it or get annoyed when it kills me ==> I either enjoyed killing it or hate it for killing me ==> I enjoy blowing up tanks

if you weren't in my squad, that tank would be me i just recorded a funny video of killing planes. wish i got all of the fight recorded cuz i made better shots than even i could imagine possible    now if i could just upload it

[Nemisis]

Ummm that is all the IL-2 ever had in game champ.

Il-2 has HE rounds doesn't it  ? I've seen it used to great effect as a town killer (ap rounds aren't all that great at killing buildings).

Also, when you get a hit on the back of a panzer, it shows the same explotion and that little swirl of smoke you get when you hit them with an osti. I serisouly doubt that the Il-2 has AP rounds.

[Nemisis]

Ummm that is all the IL-2 ever had in game champ.

Il-2 has HE rounds doesn't it  ? I've seen it used to great effect as a town killer (ap rounds aren't all that great at killing buildings).

Also, when you get a hit on the back of a panzer, it shows the same explotion and that little swirl of smoke you get when you hit them with an osti. I serisouly doubt that the Il-2 has AP rounds.

[Lusche]

Il-2 has HE rounds doesn't it  ?

No.

The IL-2 and Hurri D have dedicated AP loadout.

[Nemisis]

If thats so, then why is it so hard to kill a panzer from the side? I've done it in an M8 many times before, and the Russian 37mm cannon can't have that much worse armor penetration qualities.

Edit: And can someone please explain to me the explotion and the little swirl of smoke you get when hitting a panzer in the rear? I'm pretty damn sure the Osti doen't use AP rounds, and it looks identicle.

[Spikes]

You talking about the tater hit? If you were to light up a plane with a tater?

[Nemisis]

No, you can kill a panzer or T-34 with the osti. back of the panzer, or side of the drivers compartment for the T-34. But when you DO get a hit with one, the hits look IDENTICAL to the ones you get with the Il-2. Same explotion, and the same little smoke swirl one the..... I guess they're flames....... clear.

The hits also look the same as the Yak9T, and I'd bet that they didn't use AP rounds either. Why use AP rounds with something intended for air to air work?


Come to think of it, you get the same thing when you hit an armored vehicle's tracks with the osti as well, and the U.S. 37mm, AND the german 30mm.

If the Il-2 and Hurri IID have AP rounds, we need to get the hit vizualizations changed to hit sprites.

[Lusche]

If thats so, then why is it so hard to kill a panzer from the side? I've done it in an M8 many times before, and the Russian 37mm cannon can't have that much worse armor penetration qualities.

It's not that difficult to do it in a 37mm Il2, and the 37mm M-6 is  actually a more powerful cannon (about 15-18% higher muzzle energy)

The hits also look the same as the Yak9T, and I'd bet that they didn't use AP rounds either. Why use AP rounds with something intended for air to air work?

The Yak-t does not use AP in game.

[Nemisis]

Yes, but Il-2's get fairly close (D800 at the furthest usually), where as I've killed a panzer at 1600 yds with 7 shots. I think that the penetration would even out concidering the range has doubled at least.

And seeing as the Yak-9T and Il-2 37mm cannons show hits on tanks the same way, either the Il-2 uses HE, the Yak-9T uses AP, or HTC fell asleep at the switch on this one.

That is unless someone can explain to me why hits on the same vehicle with the same cannon will look like hits with HE rounds when the cannon is infact firing AP rounds.

[Lusche]

Yes, but Il-2's get fairly close (D800 at the furthest usually), where as I've killed a panzer at 1600 yds with 7 shots. I think that the penetration would even out concidering the range has doubled at least.

And seeing as the Yak-9T and Il-2 37mm cannons show hits on tanks the same way, either the Il-2 uses HE, the Yak-9T uses AP, or HTC fell asleep at the switch on this one.

That is unless someone can explain to me why hits on the same vehicle with the same cannon will look like hits with HE rounds when the cannon is infact firing AP rounds.

Let's say.. I have no idea about the hit sprites, I don't really notice them... they just tell me that I have hit.

But the Il-2 23mm & 37mm and the Hurri D are firing AP, the Yak-9T is not. (You can easily test the difference between Yak and Il offline by attacking the Tiger's top armor.)

[Lusche]

Yes, but Il-2's get fairly close (D800 at the furthest usually), where as I've killed a panzer at 1600 yds with 7 shots. I think that the penetration would even out concidering the range has doubled at least.

According to the tables at http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/guns/37-mm.asp the American M-8' 37mm gun shooting APC can penetrate ~48mm at 1000yds.
According to Anthony Williams, the NS-37 would had similar penetration at 500m only. (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm)

[Nemisis]

1000 is twice 500, just as 1600 is double 800. And 800yds is the typical MAXIMUM range that Il-2's will open up on a tank.


And really, my point isn't that the penetration seems too low for an AP round (which it does IMO), but that the hits look the same as those you get with an HE round. Either HTC needs to fix the hit vizualizations or he needs to enlighten us as to weather or not the Il-2/ IID use AP rounds or HE rounds.

I've killed a panzer in 8 shots from a Yak-9T, and I've killed a panzer in 9 shots from an Il-2 (the only time I got 100% accuracy with the Il-2, sadly  ). Range was the same, angle of attack was the same, hell, the panzer was even holding still for both of those kills.

[Lusche]

1000 is twice 500, just as 1600 is double 800. And 800yds is the typical MAXIMUM range that Il-2's will open up on a tank.

Exactly. And that's what my numbers say: M-8 has same penetration at double the range.  Il-2 at 800 is like M-8 at 1660

I've killed a panzer in 8 shots from a Yak-9T, and I've killed a panzer in 9 shots from an Il-2 (the only time I got 100% accuracy with the Il-2, sadly  ). Range was the same, angle of attack was the same, hell, the panzer was even holding still for both of those kills.

Singular events in the MA's are not a very good source, particularly against a comparatively light armored tank.

In offline mode, you have complete comtrol over all important factors, and you can test both guns against a tougher target (Tiger).

I have spent literally a whole afternoon firing hundreds of rounds into the top armor... never had a problem to make Tiger smoke  with a few fired rounds 10-30, but with the Yak-t... nada.