Author Topic: Utah college kids get armed (Read 1692 times)

ChickenHawk · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2008, 06:11:13 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d
How many University's are in the United States? Over 30,000?

Actually it's less than 2000

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Originally posted by cav58d
How many shootings have there been in the past year? 5 or 6?

One is too many.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2008, 06:12:03 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d
This arguement annoys the hell out of me, especially coming from old men who'm have been out of college for decades, if they even went at all...

I get what you guys are saying, but you just have this attitude that life is a war zone, and its you vs. everyone else. How many University's are in the United States? Over 30,000? How many shootings have there been in the past year? 5 or 6? I'd say college campus's are pretty damn safe. As I recent graduate of college, I would have been very much against 10 guys (or girls) carrying hand guns to my chem, poli sci and english classes.

"If only more people carried guns, then we could have shot dead the senile 85 year old driver before he lost control of his car and plowed into a crowd of people".

Guess what. Life is a War. Those that survive are those that are capable of defending themselves. Let's use a comparison to demonstrate it.

The United States military power is a representative for concealed carry. Sure, people sometimes try to mess with them, but nothing really major.

The French, on the other hand, are a representative for no concealed carry. French, being the pansies they are, are not armed or capable of defending themselves. Pretty much anyone who wants to rolls over France. Including a middle school Chorus from south texas like that recent news story.

All kidding aside, it has been proven time and time again that when guns start to be carried concealed, crime has gone DOWN. It has also been shown that the CCW holders are the most law abiding group of people.

The real problem here is that you apparently don't trust yourself to carry a gun. Classic psychology aside including projection, and basic sexual insecurities, when you say that other people will go "Wild Wild West" what you really mean is that you think YOU would go "Wild Wild West." And your noodle is small.

Tarmac · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2008, 06:24:03 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d
This arguement annoys the hell out of me, especially coming from old men who'm have been out of college for decades, if they even went at all...

So if it came out of a recent college grad, would it be okay? 'Cause I'll oblige.

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Originally posted by cav58d
I get what you guys are saying, but you just have this attitude that life is a war zone, and its you vs. everyone else. How many University's are in the United States? Over 30,000? How many shootings have there been in the past year? 5 or 6? I'd say college campus's are pretty damn safe. As I recent graduate of college, I would have been very much against 10 guys (or girls) carrying hand guns to my chem, poli sci and english classes.

It's not me vs everyone else, but someday if it's me vs. crazy homicidal guy with a deathwish, I'll help him on his way. By your logic (that school killings are statistically insignificant), let's take the opposite view and look at how many CCW permit holders have gone postal, have tried to settle a barfight with their CW, or have otherwise done one of those terrible things that the hand-wringing types are so afraid of... can you even name one? Face it, CCW holders are one of the most law-abiding demographics out there.

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Originally posted by cav58d
"If only more people carried guns, then we could have shot dead the senile 85 year old driver before he lost control of his car and plowed into a crowd of people".

You learn that handy-dandy straw man technique at your university, too?

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2008, 06:45:53 PM »

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Originally posted by ChickenHawk
Actually it's less than 2000

One is too many.

If we can just save ONE person. The law will be worth it

Thing is.

Even if thee is just 1.
We dont know how many were prevented because someone who might play copycat Didnt because everyone else was armed too.

Might have 1.
But it also might have prevented 5 others.
but because they didnt happen. we wont know

crockett · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2008, 07:00:18 PM »

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Originally posted by john9001
why are you afraid of guns?

it's not the guns it's some of the morons whom own them..

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2008, 07:07:30 PM »

When my dad was a kid, he took his .22 rifle to school so he could go hunting as he walked home.

Nobody thought it was horrible: a 10 yr old with a gun.

cav58d · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2008, 07:13:42 PM »

I'm not afraid of guns at all...I've been around them since I was a child, and plan to become an owner sometime before the end of the year. I just don't want them in a class room. I really don't care how law-abiding someone is. Whether its concealed or not, if a campus allows students to arm themselves, word will get out, and it brings un-needed attention and diversion, and even anxiety within some into the class room.

And I don't see the difference in this issue and the point I raised earlier, of shooting dead a senile 85 year old driver about to crash? A drunk driver...Someone running a red light creating a fatal accident?

And goodluck with that war of yours sailor...And regarding your size comment? Well i'm sure you have seen your fair share, so hats off to you expert.

Tango · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2008, 08:02:17 PM »

Sure is funny that over 100 years ago everyone could carry a gun with them anywhere and there was alot less murders and shootings as compared to current times with all the strict gun laws we have.

Tango · « **Reply #23 on:** February 21, 2008, 08:05:00 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d
I really don't care how law-abiding someone is. Whether its concealed or not, if a campus allows students to arm themselves, word will get out, and it brings un-needed attention and diversion, and even anxiety within some into the class room.

But your alright with campus cops running around with a gun? I know alot of people that have guns that I would trust more than some campus cops I've met.

cav58d · « **Reply #24 on:** February 21, 2008, 08:11:14 PM »

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Originally posted by Tango
But your alright with campus cops running around with a gun? I know alot of people that have guns that I would trust more than some campus cops I've met.

Those evil cops..........

And yes...I worked closely with, and met a large portion of my University's Police Department, and have full confidence in them to do their job. I trust them a lot more than the average 18-22 year old walking around campus, who did a six hour training class, and submitted an application to the police department to carry a gun and play hero.

And are you really going to compare 1908 to 2008?

Tango · « **Reply #25 on:** February 21, 2008, 08:23:13 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d
And are you really going to compare 1908 to 2008?

http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/glance/tables/hmrttab.htm

1903 had 1.1 homicides per 100,000. The lowest in the 20th century. I'm also pretty sure there were alot more people toting guns back then than there are now.

Strip · « **Reply #26 on:** February 21, 2008, 08:24:47 PM »

No offense to the british players but look what Great Britain has become......a strict gun law policy and a absolutly terrible crime rate. They have almost banned gun ownership completely and while gun crimes went down, blunt force trauma has skyrocketed!

Here it is in a few short words

No guns.......more crime.
More guns.......less crime.

What is so hard to understand? Its old, over used, and a little corny but if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns!

This is mainly talking about legal weapons and people with rights to own firearms. I am all for enforcement of logical gun laws.

(Unlike California who banned AR-15s because they looked evil when any semi-automatic gun is just as lethal as another.)

P.S. Has California fell off the map yet?

Strip(er)

AKIron · « **Reply #27 on:** February 21, 2008, 08:30:57 PM »

If allowing handgun carry on campus saves more lives than destroys then they should be allowed. This should be a simple matter of arithmetic, not an emotional fear fest.

cav58d · « **Reply #28 on:** February 21, 2008, 08:36:41 PM »

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Originally posted by Tango
http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/glance/tables/hmrttab.htm

1903 had 1.1 homicides per 100,000. The lowest in the 20th century. I'm also pretty sure there were alot more people toting guns back then than there are now.

I really don't see the relevance. Different society, different weapons, and a hell of a lot different people arming themselves, for a lot different reasons.

Look, I have no problem with gun ownership. In fact, I encourage it. I just don't agree with them being in an academic class room.

AKIron · « **Reply #29 on:** February 21, 2008, 08:58:33 PM »

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Originally posted by cav58d
I really don't see the relevance. Different society, different weapons, and a hell of a lot different people arming themselves, for a lot different reasons.

Look, I have no problem with gun ownership. In fact, I encourage it. I just don't agree with them being in an academic class room.

I have no problem with campuses being gun free. Fact is, campuses have become targets of those who are unhappy with the hand life has dealt them and want to make others share their unhappiness. I'd be happy if everyone in the world treated everyone else like they wanted to be treated. Then there would be no need for guns for other than hunting. However, the unpleasant fact is that this world just ain't that way.