Author Topic: SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?  (Read 7219 times)

Offline whiteman

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #60 on: February 27, 2008, 12:15:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
See, that's odd for me, because several games have SDKs, System Development Kits, that allow you to mod certain things (create a mod, perhaps a map, do modeling, etc)...


SDKF.... Doesn't it have a nickname, like "Panzer"?


EDIT: I hereby dub it "Halftrack" because that's what it is and I recall a couple movies that just referred to it as such.


my grandpa referred to them as "coffin on wheels".

Offline Lusche

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #61 on: February 27, 2008, 12:20:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty

Doesn't it have a nickname, like "Panzer"?

 


"Panzer" isn't really a nickname. All German tanks were "Panzer", because that's just what it means.

Panzer I, Panzer II, Panzer III, Panzer IV... ;)
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Offline moot

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2008, 12:25:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mipoikel
LOL, Im sure they wanted to do something what was never asked. And this must be it. I dont remember seeing anyone asking this. never.:D

Yeah we did, we asked for something to tow artillery with :)
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Offline macleod01

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2008, 12:35:37 PM »
6 of these Halftracks, bye bye town!
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Offline moot

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2008, 12:42:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
(towed artillery groveling).

In addition to changing tactics, it would change the locations of attacks.. So far it's always been at the GV spawn points and between those and targets, with the occasional flank tactics as the terrain allows (when players have patience for it).  Towed arty would allow for more dispersed combat pretty much everytime, instead of the same head to head trench fights we get now.

To avoid abuse of arty units' long range, they could be modeled without any binoculars of any sort.  That way the only effective way of spotting rounds would be from another player's point of view.  It would be another extra incentive for teamwork.
The only flaw would be it restricting players from using the arty unit on their own, which might be too much..  In that case they'd either get only a little zoom range, or normal zoom range but a separate spawn point further back.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 12:50:12 PM by moot »
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Offline BaldEagl

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #65 on: February 27, 2008, 12:44:38 PM »
I found this.  Thought you all might find it interesting:

The Germans were not the first army in the world to use rockets in a tactical situation, but they were the first during WWII to use heavy rocket launchers in a close support role.

The first two rockets fielded came out in 1940. They were the Wurfkoerper Spreng, a high-explosive rocket with a 28 cm warhead weighing 55 kilograms, and the Wurfkoerper M FL 50, a napalm-type incendiary mixture fired in a 32 cm warhead weighing a bit less but carrying 40 liters of filler. Both rockets used the same solid-fuel rocket motor, but were ballistically awful and underpowered, providing only a very short range with high levels of dispersion. Maximum range for the HE one was 1925 meters, with a CEP of more than 80 meters; for the incendiary, it was 2200 meters with a CEP of over 100 meters. (CEP is circular area probable, which means only half of the shots would get within 40-50 meters of their intended target; result – you have to shoot more than one round to ensure you might hit it.)

Rockets could be fired from a number of different mountings with a device giving an interval of 2 seconds between shots (that was to let the mount settle down in order to minimize dispersion by the rest of the rockets.) Early mounts – Wurfgeraet 40 and 41 – were four-shot fixed frames with only elevation adjustment, firing from the ground. Later, a bigger mount, the 28/32 cm Nebelwerfer 41, was created with racks for six rockets of either type or a mixture of both. Finally, due to the short range and vulnerable situation it put the crew into when firing, someone came up with the bright idea of mounting six launchers (actually the open packing crate/launcher frame the rockets were shipped in) on a saddle mount fitted to an Sd.Kfz. 251 series halftrack. The idea worked, and was officially dubbed Schweres Wurfrahmen 40 or SWR 40; unofficially it was nicknamed "Stuka zum Fuss" or "Stuka for the infantry."

Due to the fact that they were fragile and added nearly three feet to the width of the vehicle, the rockets were not mounted until just prior to going into action. The frames would be preset for a specific range and the carrier would move in to range of the target (minimum range was 300-400 meters, which was just possible from the mountings but not recommended). The driver and commander would line up on the target, and since they had armor protection could fire the rockets from within the vehicle. For bombardment the crew had a remote firing device and could launch them from up to 10 meters away from the vehicle. They were heavily used in Russia, as the frames could be quickly fitted to nearly all standard hull 251 series halftracks of any model (e.g. Ausf. B, C, or D.) Normal mixture was five 28 cm HE and one 32 cm incendiary per load.
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Offline Airscrew

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #66 on: February 27, 2008, 12:53:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
And more artillery grovling...

In addition, towed artillery could be used to defend a spawn point from anticipated spawn campers,  much in the same way Rommell used 88's in North Africa...

Offline Lusche

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #67 on: February 27, 2008, 12:54:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by macleod01
6 of these Halftracks, bye bye town!


One Ostwind, bye bye town. ;)
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Offline Greebo

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #68 on: February 27, 2008, 01:02:11 PM »
Some 251 trivia:

The Sd Kfz 251 was the German army's standard APC from the Polish campaign right to the end of the war. There were four marks of 251, the Ausfs A to D. The version we have here is the Ausf C, which was produced from 1940 to 43. The A and B looked very similar to the C, but the D was extensively revised and looked a bit different.

The infantry carrying variant was the 251/1, but there were over 20 other variants produced. There were anti tank, anti aircraft, artillery, flamethrower, forward aircraft control, infra red nightfighting illuminator, armoured ambulance versions etc. The largest towed gun I've seen in a photo of a 251 is a 75mm AT gun. I think they used unarmoured half tracks for the 88mm.

Compared to the M3 the 251 had its good and bad points. It was a fair bit slower on roads, but a lot closer off road as it had longer tracks for reduced ground pressure and better suspension. The M3 had a driven front axle which gave it much better steering in soft conditions. The 251 had better armour protection but its complicated tracks and suspension were very maintenance intensive.

The rockets were adjustable for range. The crew would set the angle of the launchers and then retire to a safe distance before firing. They were very innaccurate and were usually used in cities to flatten buildings. BTW you can remove the launchers in the game, they are set up as a weapon pylon in the skin viewer.

The german designation for the 251 was "Mittlerer Schutzenpanzerwagen", or medium armoured infantry carrier.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 01:07:03 PM by Greebo »

Offline moot

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #69 on: February 27, 2008, 01:03:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airscrew
In addition, towed artillery could be used to defend a spawn point from anticipated spawn campers,  much in the same way Rommell used 88's in North Africa...

Yep.. It would really be a whole new set of tactics on the ground.  I'm just speculating but I suppose it would also be useful in scenarios..

Give the ground units an AA arty piece like the 88 with puffy flak rounds or any other unit with that functionality (I don't know squat about these), as well as one (or the same) with anti tank/GV loadouts, and it really opens things up..

e.g. Launching four 88s to a certain point out in a forest near a target, while one light GV (e.g. M8 or jeep) runs to a good spotting position, while the tanks we have do what they usualy do... With a few AA units distributed all over, such as an M16 with the recon, and AA 88s or ostie/wirb around the 88s aiming for the ground targets, and whatever suits the tanks for escort..  It would really work well together.  This is the sort of extra firepower (compared to now) that would really make things even more fun.

Anti tank guns towed to the edge of towns or bases (although airfields are rarely surrounded by landscape that'd favor it) would make for a lot more intense defensive or counter attack combat.

I don't know much about ground combat tactics, but IMO the tactical novelty is obvious and really worth adding :)
Even just 10 players towing their 88s and firing together.. Imagine the fireworks downrange :D And we wouldn't even get much if any whines about it.  A few rockets would wipe them out.  At worst they get a special strat to disable them at their home base.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 01:21:07 PM by moot »
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Offline Sloehand

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #70 on: February 27, 2008, 01:12:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mister Fork
When did this tank enter service? I need to update the aircraft and vehicle service date list.


Hanomag Sd.Kfz. (Sonderkraftfahrzeug) 251/1-II -
Rocket launcher variant to the halftrack armored fighting vehicle, called "Stuka zu Fuß" (Walking Stuka) or Wurfrahmen 40, equipped with six side mounted frames (Wurfrahmen) for launching 280mm or 320mm "Wurfkoerper" rockets
Versions:ABCD
J. Gast AG constructs in 1941 a simple tubular frame (Wurfrahmen) that can be folded up, if not in use. It mounts a crate containing a rocket, the "Wurfkoerper".  This is a heavy 280mm HE (in a wooden crate), or 320mm napalm (in a metal crate) rocket-projectile of which 6 can be mounted with only simple tools and knowledge to any version. Usually the "wurfrahmen" are attached to 251/1"s, but any other is possible. The "D" is seen most numerous. The rockets are launched with the crew outside the vehicle. When moving the control box, the "mehrfachzunder" and cable reels are carried in the vehicle.
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Offline RATTFINK

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #71 on: February 27, 2008, 01:21:48 PM »
Sonderkraftfahrzeug 251

See my post [in the proper forum]...


http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2766029#post2766029
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Offline Spikes

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SDKFZ-251, what are these on the side?
« Reply #72 on: February 27, 2008, 01:26:57 PM »
Can this carry troops?
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Offline John Curnutte

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Just one question
« Reply #73 on: February 27, 2008, 01:27:29 PM »
what I'd like to know is does that fire extingusher work !!!:aok
And looking forward to useing it .
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Offline Dragon

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Mittlerer Schutzenpanzerwagen
« Reply #74 on: February 27, 2008, 01:29:54 PM »
WTG HTC, Can't wait to try this Mittle cheesez
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