Two Spit XIVs

[Fencer51]

Spit XIV of 41 Squadron RAF, circa Fall 1944.  This plane still exists and is under restoration.  Due to the Personal Message loss I don't have all the data that Guppy sent me on this plane.  Hopefully he will pop in here.



Spit XIV of 91 Squadron RAF, June 1944.  Brunhilde was flown by Flt Lt "Johnny" Johnson.







Thanks To Dan "Guppy35" for his help.

[Squire]

Ya, we only have one custom skin for the XIV? time for a few more. Looking good Fencer.

...not sure about the pilot though, "Johnny" Johnson was a Wing Commander (Flying) 144 Wing RCAF in June 1944, on Spitfire LF IXs.

He did have a Spit XIV late in the war, in the Spring of 1945.

[Fencer51]

Common name, and note the rank.  Cheers.

[Squire]

Oh ya, I keep forgetting about the "other" Johnson. Righto. Both Spit aces too, makes it confusing.

[Guppy35]

41 bird is RM797 the Spit XIV of F/L Bill Stowe RCAF.  It's a survivor too and in Australia under restoration.

Only think I'm seeing Ken on Brunhilde is I don't believe she had full invasion stripes as the E wing XIVs didn't get to 91 until July, and I think the upper wing invasion stripes are too wide in that they are covering part of the roundel.  From the photo I have it appears, that despite the Osprey profile, RM687 only had half fuselage and wing stripes.  The nose art looks great

Thanks for taking on the XIVs.  Not that I'm at all partial to 41 and 91 Squadron

[Fencer51]

But I love the invasion stripes on the upper surfaces. 

Anyway I was refering to 'Camoluflage & Markings RAF Northern Europe 1936-45' which you might remember you pointed me at a couple years ago when I was doing Clostermann's MkIX. It says 'first stripe placed 6 inches inboard of the roundel and 18 inches forward of the tail plane. (this is refering to the lower stripes)

It also says on the last page, that 'After September 1944 the markings were removed from the upper surfaces.'  Says that in at least one other location as well refering to a profile of a Mk XIV. 

Ohh it says 6 inches inboard of the roundell on the upper too, bugger.  Ok so gotta redo that.

I mean Dan are you sure they didn't have those upper invasion stripes?  I am going to need to see a photo.  Osprey NEVER gets it's profiles wrong.  Why should I trust you?  Like you know anything about Spitfires!  They only have one engine after all. 

Nose art sure looks nice too. <G> (thanks)

If I gotta remove them I will. 

[Fencer51]

How far down the fusalage would they have removed them?

[Fencer51]

Dan, page 296 2TAF volume 2 see the picture with the stripes.    More info than we had.  Ah hah.. numbers on the props too, time to fire up the scanner.

Note that it also says they got their Spit XIVs in March.

[Krusty]

The... uh... foot pattern wear and tear looks rather funny looking. They look like a glitch in the file, a graphical bug. Is there any way to make them look a little "smoother" perhaps? For example, if it's going to "cut the corner" on a panel line, if it's worn enough to have that much paint off, I don't think it looks right that every other pixel is still there inside this "zone of chipping" -- I'd chip 'em all off or make the overall chip area smaller, perhaps.

Just some suggestions.


Squire: I think it's like the C-hog... very few options, and most kinda use the same pattern. At least on Spits you get invasion stripes to spice things up (not an option on C-hogs  )

[Guppy35]

Dan, page 296 2TAF volume 2 see the picture with the stripes.    More info than we had.  Ah hah.. numbers on the props too, time to fire up the scanner.

Note that it also says they got their Spit XIVs in March.

91 got Spitfire XIVs with Universal "C" wings in March, but didn't get E wing XIVs until mid July.  I have the logbook of the A Flight Commander of 91 and he notes the arrival of the first E wing Spit 14.  If you look at the enlarged picture of Brunhilde there is no evidence at all of wing stripes top or bottom.  Wheel covers show nothing and you can see the camo demarcation line.  I'm speculating that this is a late July-early August image, just before they turned them in for Spitfire IXs.  In that regard you'd only have the fuselage stripes the same as on EB E

[Fencer51]

Is there anything wrong with skinning the C wings as there is no chance we will ever get that option?

[Fencer51]

91 got Spitfire XIVs with Universal "C" wings in March, but didn't get E wing XIVs until mid July.  I have the logbook of the A Flight Commander of 91 and he notes the arrival of the first E wing Spit 14.  If you look at the enlarged picture of Brunhilde there is no evidence at all of wing stripes top or bottom.  Wheel covers show nothing and you can see the camo demarcation line.  I'm speculating that this is a late July-early August image, just before they turned them in for Spitfire IXs.  In that regard you'd only have the fuselage stripes the same as on EB E

Ok, we are going to assume that this aircraft never had invasion stripes on the upper or lower wings.  That means to me that they would never have bothered to put them on the fusalage either.  So I have removed them from the A/C.   

Cheers.

[Guppy35]

Not true oh king of the 51


They'd more then likely would have been similar to whats on EB-E   Just the partial fuselage stripes as those were the last to go.

[Fencer51]

 

I hate British Aircraft and Luftwaffe Aircraft...

Ok oh Twin Boomed Lawn Dart, we will go with the lower invasion stripes like EBE.

Now, do you have an opinion on skinning C wings on our MkXIVE?

Btw did you note that the profile has C wings on it.  Maybe he had two planes named Brunhilde?  That would explain the serial number problem.

[Guppy35]

I don't think it would be an issue skinning an XIV with a C wing, since they were relatively few.  I kinda doubt they're gonna go back and add that option.

as for Brunhilde.  Going directly from "Johnny" Johnson's correspondance, there was only the one, as the guy who did it asked him if he could do the nose art and the photo I posted came from "Johnny".  my bet is the guy who did the profile somehow tied RB188 from the squadron records to Johnson and assumed it was the bird in the photo.  I'm also guessing he was working from a copy of the photo and hadn't seen the original like I had where the RM687 on the spinner showed up much more clearly.

The squadron record books list serials to sorties but not squadron letters.  So unless you have the logbooks to connect, it's going to be hit or miss.  Thankfully Johnny had his logbook too