Americans Launch Attack

[SkyRock]

i don't know what to say.......Bataan death march, rape of nanking?  help me out here.

Two wrongs do not make a right. 

[Rino]

The Falklands was a closely run thing - the Argie pilots were gutsy as all hell, they scored plenty of hits but alot of their bombs didn't arm properly because of the low level attacks in San Carlos bay, and the bulk of thier forces were conscripts
If the Argies had hit or disabled HMS Hermes, or HMS Invincible who knows what would've happened


O/T it was the invasion by the Russians which forced the Japanese hand in 1945

 Tronsky

Yeah..I'm sure the fact that their navy had been destroyed, US subs had effectively stopped their
merchant traffic. their cities were going up like roman candles and they had lost most of their best
troops in the island campaigns had nothing to do with it.

It was those brave Rooskies pigpiling Manchuria in the last 2 weeks that really sealed the deal.

[JBA]

____________________________________________________

Here is a photo taken of Tokyo during that infamous B-29 raid of 63 years ago:


(Image removed from quote.)

Looks to me like a job well done. Congrats to the airmen for risking their lives to save ours.

[Skuzzy]

Shortened topic to placate those who are going ballistic over the 80 character topic limit.

[bcadoo]

Got to admit the Argentinians came to the table with a full set of balls for that fight.  Put up a fair scrap too if I recall.

Takes some pretty big ones to fly in this low (note the plane on the RIGHT).....and looks like he's taking some fairly severe ack.

[Yeager]

Two wrongs do not make a right. 

Formal Surrender pretty much cleared that up.

[lasersailor184]

Arlo clearly forgot that we've already discussed how he was wrong about the cold war.  No need to rehash it yet again.


Even though the Falklands never came to a great conclusion, they can be viewed as a single battle, not a war.

My point still stands.

[NUKE]

Shortened topic to placate those who are going ballistic over the 80 character topic limit.

Only 80 characters for the topic? 

Here is an interesting article describing the Falkands War.

http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj02/fal02/corum.html

 

[themaj]

Random thoughts:

I am under the impression that Japan surrendered before the atomic drops. Was accepted after the atomic drops. 
History is writtin by the conquerers.

Ancient times it meant death to all and salt the fields.
Firebombing entire cities seemed to stop the natzis and the imperials, brutal means to an end.

As far as war crimes go, perhaps no nation has commited more than Britannia. Think of the nations and cultures they have destroyed.

Total victory has its price.

Of all the horrors of WW2, the realization of "War Industry/Economy" is perhaps our worst legacy.

Not wanting to pick on any one nation, I would sum this up by saying the nations of men have been destroying/stealing anything and everything on the other side of "the line in the sand" since the beginnings of organized villages. "its ok, they are not one of us"
Its a human animal thing called greed & insecurity.

See u in the cartoon skies!

[Yeager]

I am under the impression that Japan surrendered before the atomic drops. Was accepted after the atomic drops. 

Not quite, Japan did not capitulate until August 14th, 1945. 

Be assured that the war between the Allies and the Axis was a world war and that roughly 72 million human beings perished violently during that cataclysm. To denouce the victorious allies as war criminals and terrorist serves two purposes.  It makes the dencouncers look like the absolutley pathetic morons they truly are, and it lays unacceptable disgrace and utter disrespect on every allied combatant that sacrificed during that war.

[Bodhi]

Random thoughts:

I am under the impression that Japan surrendered before the atomic drops. Was accepted after the atomic drops. 
History is writtin by the conquerers.

I'd like to see a source to that.  Probably Japanese if there was one...   

IMO, the japs did not get anywhere near what they deserved for starting that war.  If I had been President, we would have turned their home islands into a glowing crater.

[Furball]

Argentina only had 5 Exocet missiles that could be launched from planes at the start of the war.   The use of just those 5 missiles resulted in two sunk British ships.   If they would of had a decent supply of these missiles available, the war could have had a much different outcome.   France refused to sell any more of the missiles to Argentina, once the war broke out.

And British intelligence stopped the availability of Exorcets around the world to stop them falling into Argentine hands, they also went under cover to pretend to sell Exorcets to Argentina to stop them looking elsewhere.  France rightly stopped shipments as they are in NATO.  Similarly, you could argue how the conflict could have been different if the RN hadn't disbanded their large conventional aircraft carriers?

I think one of the key moments often overlooked was the sinking of the Belgrano by the nuclear sub HMS Conquerer, this proved that the British meant business to protect the task force.  The Vulcan Black Buck missions also showed the Argie scum that RAF bombers were able to strike at that distance from bases in England, and hit mainland Argentina if necessary.

[apcampbell]

Here's the interesting modern twist to the historical facts about the end of the war. Today, Japanese schools DO NOT TEACH the events of the Second World War as we have been taught here in the US. This is due in part by the Japanese sense of honor and nationalism, and also as an indirect result of the sense of shame the Japanese felt by their surrender.

Interestingly enough, during both tours of duty I had in Japan (1993-1995, and 2001-2004) We were specifcally instructed to avoid talking about the war at all, due to the shame factor, and their own version of events.

Japan still suffers today from the crimes of it's past. China, the Koreas, and several other pacific island nations still have a deep mistrust against it.

As for US conduct during the war, it should be pointed out that Japan's tactics (influenced by it's ingrained culture) left us very little choice in which to end the war. I don't remember which island campaign it was, but I recall Japanese civilians threw themselves to their deaths, rather than suffer the dishonor of being "captured" by the Americans.

I also recall reading about how millions of Japanese civilians were conscripted into the army and began training with spears in the hopes of killing just one American.

However, right or wrong. We live with the result. I can only imagine what Harry S. Truman was feeling once he found out what he really had unleashed upon the world.

[BlauK]

IMO, the japs did not get anywhere near what they deserved for starting that war.  If I had been President, we would have turned their home islands into a glowing crater.

We all hope you will never even dream of becoming a president.

[ghostdancer]

I believe the incident or island you are thinking about was Saipan. And yes they did, the civilians were so indoctrinated with propaganda that many committed suicide by throwing themselves and their children off of cliffs.

Also in the large majority of the battles in the Pacific you have to remember the Japanese never surrendered. It was a rarity for the U.S. to take any prisoners because of the Japanese honor code which held it as a disgrace to themselves, their family, and nation to surrender. According to their code the Allied POWs were not even human in their eyes because they surrendered which led to their mindset where they treated the POWs inhumanely. It also led to the Japanese garrisons fighting to the last man.

In the battle of Saipan almost the entire garrison of 30,000 fought to the death (roughly 1,000 were taken prisoner I believe). This is comparison to 10,364 Americans (out of 71,000) who were killed or wounded. If you look at other battles you will see the same pattern repeated where entire Japanese garrisons fought to the death instead of surrendering. Very different than the Germans and the war in Europe.