I miss the good old days

[MajWoody]

He is talking about people like you MajWoody, ganger twits who could care less about the honor of the fight.  You flew out of your way the other night to follow the 2 cons on my 6 as I tried to drag for a 1 vs 1, 1 vs 2, but instead got ganged by 3, when all 3 of you knew there was only one "me" there to kill. 

So one might ask, why would 3 players follow one if only one of the 3 players is going to actually get the kill.  Do you like scoreworing your assists?????

There were only two you lieing twit, & the other one was my squady. You always twist things around to try & make yourself look like the victim. You are a liar and a REAL jerk. You know what I'm talking about Mr Seedy Weed. I'll find the post & link it here.

[shreck]

I sometimes think we view "the good old days" through rose tinted glasses, as in real life when we remember the past we normally remember the good times not the bad.
Back in AW we had our fair share of runners and I'm sure if the game would have made the HO possible/easier we would have had plenty of those to go with it.
If I remember correctly "the good old days" my grandfather talked of were full of women passing away during child birth and disseases that are now cureable being killers.

 


These are the good old days of the future

[KayBayRay]

He DrDrea,

I hear ya bro. I'm an old timer from AW. I cut my teeth with that way back in the early 90's. Even though that was a bit different mechanically I agree with you assessment. Honor seems much harder to find here. Although as some have pointed out it does exist. I learned in AW about cross country smak so I have never tuned 200.

There is a new generation here now and they dont see the world the same as we do. They have a whole new perspective on it IMO. I see it in my children and I dont like it. Cant eradicate it because too much influence from their peers via "Techno Gizzmo's" you cant control.

I think it might be a case of we have been doing this much longer than most and in some cases longer then some players have been alive. So our perspective sees much farther back down the road then most. I recently responded to a new player with the  "Mo Nana's" that was written long ago. I posted it because after reading if for the first time in about 5 years I found it just as realivent today in AHII as it was in AW when it was written.

There are many in here that understand the "Honor" we are talking about. I have encountered a few of them. However it does "seem" that there is less of it present. I think it is because we are looking back down a long road of memory when we look at AHII. So I think this skewes our view.

As you I typically dont HO but I find when I have 3+ bandits on my six and another rolls over and HO's I tend to get pretty ticked and wonder "Why am I being so Gallant? These Monkies dont know what is going on".

So I do think Honor is here, I just think it is much harder for us to see it.

Later,
KayBay   

[RRAM]

I guess I'd qualify as an "old stick", given that I was flying AH since Beta up to late AH1 releases.

From my limited point of view, if I hit a plane and I get it disabled, I'm coming back to finish it no matter what, no matter how good the fight was. First because I want the kill, second because if I don't finish him then chances are that someone else will.

As a matter of honor, for me everything goes unless it's a blatant steal or chute killing. Destroying a flying plane no matter how damaged it is, is what the game is about. Good fights won (or lost) deserve a <S>, not an indult.

[panzerr]

You can never go home again....

[Blammo]

PS.. I believe that Ch200 was intended to be a medium where players could exchange salutations and verbage of respect for their opponents.  How sad that it quickly degraded into a mindless slugfest years ago.

Degraded? It has always been this way...even back when it was Channel 1.  Much like this forum, you have good posts, bad posts and posts waiting to be Skuzzinated.  Channel 200 is just too many egos set loose on the ether of AH2.

[Hungry]

I started AW in 96 as well in RR then Mute pulled me into FR about a year later or so where I stayed until the end.  At least in FR where the numbers were lower you knew darn near everyone.  And you knew tommorrow you would see them again.  So at least for me the fights were temepered with that respect as you would with your next door neighbor and the block baseball games.  No matter how much you want to win the next morning as your both leaving for work you nod and say good morning.  Here the shear numbers and anonymity of it all lets people hide behind what they think they need to be to survive.  

Enjoy this moment so it can eventually be part of the good ol'e days.

My 2 cents

[Ack-Ack]

NAw its not the drama queens...Its the total lack of any type of what AW had going.The old sticks will know what Im saying.You could fight a guy for 5 min and one would get hit in the engine and ya called it a fight.You dont see that now.Its die or die.Sure has changed alot.Now everyone has to concider the %of having to throw out a face shot.Playstation and X box has killed the honor mentality.

Take off your rose tinted glasses.  Every bad thing you described about AH was just as common and prevailent in AW.  To state otherwise is just denying the truth.


ack-ack

[Simaril]

Only been here since '04, but I'm old enough to remember those days. I just wasn't in AW....

And I think the REASON there was no AW for me tells a big part of the story. At that point in my life, I just couldn't swing the time and money commitment that AW required. I read about that game in CGW (which used to have nothing but disdain for platform systems...but I digress), and I salivated over it, but I had to settle for offline boxes like "Their Finest Hour" and it's Pacific war predecessor whose name I cannot remember.

In the days of AW, your player sample was preselected by the cost of playing. That meant kids, lower earners, and non-aviation fanatics were much less likely to be in the game at all.

If you picked a random sample of AH's true aviation buffs, higher earning (and statistically higher educated), and older players I bet the atmosphere would be a lot smaller, and a lot closer to the things you remember

[BaldEagl]

Now some would pull the "hollier than thou" blanket over your head and want to burn me at the steak, ...

Well, they might want to burn your steak... which might be almost as bad a being burnt at the stake 

[Pawz]

Sure dr it's still here but when you try to let a guy run home he turns around and shoots you in the back.
 

[FT_Animal]

Remember in AW how you would get engaged with someone and they would start smoking and you gave a <S> and let them go home?Alotta the quake types playing wouldnt understand that.It wasnt about the kill.It was all about the fight in the old days.The days of Air Warrior.Now I find myself wondering if this guy in front of me is gonna give me a face shot.Should I dive down up both giving him a snapshot at me?Should I give him a shot in the face myself?
  I had several if not many fights with Nomde.Him his 47 me my 109.All straight up legit fights and we more often than not both ended up smoking and calling it a fight so we could rtb.Hell he called off 2 guys from his country one time so I could rtb.That kinda honor has gone.Now its smack talking tards that belittle people nightly on 200 thumping their chests and calling everyone else dweebs."Go to the DA now your your a wuss" I see this so often it makes me wanna puke.The prevailing attitudes in AH has damaged the game.I was gone for around a year and decided to come back.Man this place has changed in a year.My % of giving a HO has tripled due to the fact thats all I get anymore.I cant wait till CT comes out.I'll live there.
 I miss my old game.I wish there was a way to make it come back.

Yes sir you are correct.

IMO the noobs and the ones who just game the game aren't going to give you that, and we had it in AW too. Here it's just way bigger, exaggerated out of purportion of what we are *used to*.

IMO, leading by example, as I've seen you do personally, is the best way, the only successful way. The second you try to force someone to act a certain way you will get a double dose of rebellion. They have to get it on their own and some are looking for guidance from a vet. The power of suggestion. None of the solutions happen with instant results. I\we have to plant the seed and water it until it matures into a real plant. Keep leading by example and the ones WILLING to get it, will get it. Just when you think no one is listening one guy is and he will pay it forward. Fight the good fight.

Some egos you will never reach, their mileage will vary.

OTOH, personally I have made some interesting observations on this in the less then 2 weeks I've been flying here. I watched at least 3 people change. These pilots who were in a small way taunting me, maybe even attempting to humiliate me (which is not hard) and talking the big game, were soon "<S>" peeps when *losing a fight*. 

I suggest this,...
We all are here for the same reason. We all love aviation. Flight simmers are a different breed of gamer. We are willing to challenge the infinite *learning* curve to fly as well and fast as we think.  We are all here as friends who have the same interest regardless of side or "points". A different side is just so you have someone to fight, the rest is immersion. I think some of these things take time for some people to realize.

No matter how many points I have it is separate from if I actually get that part of it. If I didn't have honest fun getting all those points then they all become moot, because fun is #1. "Money doesn't make the man".

I will only be as good a pilot as the best guy I go up against. Because every fight is a learning experience whether I pay attention and retain it or not. Every time I am shot down is because of me, *I* allowed myself to appear in his sights. I gave him a window of opportunity because I am the only driver in the aircraft.

A person can debate this until the world goes flat, and we've watched it a zillion times,..but it is what it is. No matter how I paint it it ends with me. Even in HO merges, the third time around I should have invented a way to avoid damage. There is at least one move that will always put me on his 6 and I use it.

With that said, it seems to be the opinion of many long time vets that "<S>" means "thanks for showing me the errors of my ways" and of course "Good fight".

For those who enjoy ruining the whole mood of an arena with your exploded ego I can only feel sorry and embarrassed for you.

[NoBaddy]

Define an old stick.  My AW days started in 96.  The old guys then thought we were kinda useless too

Yes Tiff.....and we still do. 

There were mouths, and vulchers and guys who only fought when they had every advantage.  There were porkers, and milk runners and everything else.

The guys who wanted to fight and understood it was a game tended to find each other anyway.  I'm having as much fun now if not more then I had back then, and I had a blast.  I understand what you are talking about.  I think we all have our 'time' in the game where we remember something special.  I just think that it's still here as long as I still want to find it.

Well, in the real old days of AW (pre-CRIS), there was plenty of what folks around here describe as "honor". Folks like HT, Heater and Fencer know what I'm talking about. (...of course NO ONE ever cut Fence any slack ) As the game got bigger, it got harder to find. If you really want to find it here more often than once in a blue moon, the arenas need to get smaller still.

[Hungry]

"If you really want to find it here more often than once in a blue moon, the arenas need to get smaller still"

NoBaddy,

But then you run into the other problem, the arena caps would make it even harder to fly the same arena with the same or similar bunch of guys, if you could nite after nite then you could establish some ground rules.

[Guppy35]

Yes Tiff.....and we still do. 

Well, in the real old days of AW (pre-CRIS), there was plenty of what folks around here describe as "honor". Folks like HT, Heater and Fencer know what I'm talking about. (...of course NO ONE ever cut Fence any slack ) As the game got bigger, it got harder to find. If you really want to find it here more often than once in a blue moon, the arenas need to get smaller still.

You point out one of the keys to the whole thing.  It was a smaller community back then and folks knew each other. You couldn't get lost in the crowd so easy so how you acted was much more magnified.   The other thing that's key is it's the vets who teach the new guys.  I know that I sure paid attention to how the old guys acted when I was new.  I've tried to do the same in how I come across in the game.

I can still choose to let a deadstick or badly damaged plane go and often do, in particular if it's been a good fight.  I can still ask before I enter someone elses fight.  If I play the game the way I think is respectful and for lack of a better word 'honorable', I can hope that those who see it might follow suit.

But all I can control is me.  Demanding that others follow never works.