Author Topic: electorial idea...  (Read 1265 times)

Offline MORAY37

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2008, 10:32:36 AM »
Not to interrupt you, you were on a role.  But Lincoln wasn't one of the best presidents.  Not even close.

Five Best Presidents    (http://www.infoplease.com/spot/presrankings1.html)
1.Abraham Lincoln
2.Franklin Delano Roosevelt
3.George Washington
4.Theodore Roosevelt
5.Harry S. Truman


RANK NAME MEAN        (http://opinionjournal.com/hail/rankings.html)
GREAT
1 George Washington 4.92
2 Abraham Lincoln 4.87
3 Franklin Roosevelt 4.67
NEAR GREAT
4 Thomas Jefferson 4.25
5 Theodore Roosevelt 4.22
6 Andrew Jackson 3.99
7 Harry Truman 3.95
8 Ronald Reagan 3.81
9 Dwight Eisenhower 3.71
10 James Polk 3.70
11 Woodrow Wilson 3.68

     Lincoln's rankings in 12 different historical surveys.
16 Abraham Lincoln 01 01 01 01 03 02 02 01 01 02 02 02



Yup.  Definately NOT one of our best.  Actually, THE best.  Troll away.
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Offline lazs2

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2008, 02:10:58 PM »
moray..  I really don't care what a group of historians consider "great".

In my opinion the three worst presidents of all time are...

FDR
LBJ
Lincoln

Lincoln only made the list because of one blunder but.. it was huge..  He did more to kill states rights than anyone.

The other two did more to expand the federal government through socialist programs than any other.

Now, if you like socialism.. then they may not be considered bad at all.. you would agree with the historians that they were "great".

They also got a lot done.. if your criteria is getting the most done.. they would be "great"  My criteria is that if the things you are getting done are all evil...  then the less you get done.. the better.

lazs

Offline WWhiskey

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2008, 02:25:52 PM »
Seems like a pretty slick way to negate the "urban" vote.  :aok
kinda why i think they set it up like that,
 so the producers would not fall under the power of the consumers
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 02:39:41 PM by WWhiskey »
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Offline ROX

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2008, 02:37:27 PM »
The Electoral College has worked in the past, but there are those who when they lose want to claim "shenanigins" on everything and say the system is broke.

It does seem odd that a candidate can lose the vote count but win by Electoral College. 

How about simply going by tally of voters votes cast?  Get the majority of votes in any given state = win that state.  Too simple?


ROX

Offline WWhiskey

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2008, 02:49:29 PM »
The Electoral College has worked in the past, but there are those who when they lose want to claim "shenanigins" on everything and say the system is broke.

It does seem odd that a candidate can lose the vote count but win by Electoral College. 

How about simply going by tally of voters votes cast?  Get the majority of votes in any given state = win that state.  Too simple?


ROX
i like it, but it would never happen, all those coastal states with the large population would whine and cry because they could never get anyone elected :aok while all the land owner states and mostly fly over country as the left like to call it, would control a vast majority of the congress as well as the white house. example of  the senate would be 16 states or 32 senators from the left, 36 states or 72 senators from the right, give or take 7 states
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2008, 02:55:10 PM »
While I might think highly of their research, by placing FDR anywhere but the bottom 5 they lose all credibility.


Lincoln was still one of the worst presidents.

Who would you put at #1?

Offline Simaril

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2008, 03:03:28 PM »
The Electoral College has worked in the past, but there are those who when they lose want to claim "shenanigins" on everything and say the system is broke.

It does seem odd that a candidate can lose the vote count but win by Electoral College. 

How about simply going by tally of voters votes cast?  Get the majority of votes in any given state = win that state.  Too simple?


ROX

ROX,

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean. It seems to me that you're proposing exactly what happens now: whoever wins the state gets the electoral college votes from the state, and the electoral college votes are directly proportional to the state's population.

The whole idea of the electoral college was to make the selection of the president more politically reliable. What many people forget is that the founders were all "Classically Educated," with a curriculum that was heavy on ancient history, literature, and languages. For a group of guys trying to set up a democracy after centuries of autocracy, the Peloponnesian War provided a HUGE caution. In that war, Athens snatched defeat from the jaws of victory when the masses voted for an invasion of Sicily. Militarily it was insane, but the masses voted for it because they would make out like bandits from the war effort itself. (Most of the city based commoners could work as rowers in wartime, making steady income even when other work dried up.)

With this example, the founders thought it was foolish to trust uneducated commoners with the levers of power. Instead, the commoners voted for the Electors, who would get together at the club and decide who'd get to be president.

In fact there's nothing in the constitution that says electors HAVE to vote a certain way. Only tradition and party loyalty bind them to vote for a specific candidate, and in fact there has been at least one instance when Electors voted against the guy they were supposed to support.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 03:05:06 PM by Simaril »
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Offline eskimo2

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2008, 03:10:34 PM »
Great idea Lazs; the best one you've ever had.

By the way; this person's vote would be 186 times as powerful as yours:


Offline CAP1

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2008, 04:01:54 PM »
I agree but.. it is the same thing.. why should a few tiny little population centers that have nothing to do with the lives of the rest of the country dictate who represents the country?

lazs

agreed.....i've never really liked the electorial system. it seems very unfair as you've already stated. the popular vote should be the way to go......i think.....

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Offline CAP1

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2008, 04:02:36 PM »
the only people that are against the Electoral College are those that lose the election.

popular vote.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2008, 04:03:31 PM »
So lazs, you are against the people deciding what the people want? You want the acreage to decide? LOL.

ditch the electorial system and use the popular vote. maybe i'm mssing something, but i don't think so. if i am, i'd be happy to be enlightened

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Offline mg1942

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2008, 04:17:09 PM »
Great idea Lazs; the best one you've ever had.

By the way; this person's vote would be 186 times as powerful as yours:




WINNER!?!?!?! :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok

Offline WWhiskey

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2008, 04:18:06 PM »
what your missing is what the founders of the country could not decide about!
some wanted only land owners to vote, while others thought all the people should decide!
 the reasoning behind this is simple if non land owners voted and elected people who then worked against the rights of owners it would not be long before you would have a socialist type of america so they did the unthinkable, they comprimised and created the electoral college where as the popular vote could and in most instances would win but the security of the land owners and or smaller states could still be protected in close elections!
 i dont remember any time when the votes were as close as they are now and i fear that the electoral votes may soon not be able to keep pace with the growing population!
of course it is just my opinion! :aok
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Offline Simaril

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2008, 04:26:28 PM »
Whiskey:

The electoral votes are fixed by law at 538 nationwide. No matter how the population shifts around, the Electoral College total remains the same -- and is equal to the number of Senators plus Representatives from each state.

The college does not and did not affect the struggle between landed and landless voters. Voter eligibility is a completely different issue, and was addressed partly by states and partly by the constitution itself. (Remember the abhorrent formula that assigned 3/5 of a population tally for every male black slave?)
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: electorial idea...
« Reply #59 on: April 04, 2008, 05:01:24 PM »
Whiskey:

The electoral votes are fixed by law at 538 nationwide. No matter how the population shifts around, the Electoral College total remains the same -- and is equal to the number of Senators plus Representatives from each state.

The college does not and did not affect the struggle between landed and landless voters. Voter eligibility is a completely different issue, and was addressed partly by states and partly by the constitution itself. (Remember the abhorrent formula that assigned 3/5 of a population tally for every male black slave?)

so will the electoral votes increase as population does or stay the same even tho the population grows  and if the population grows and shifts more and more to the coastal states will there be an even bigger rift between the popular vote and the college?
just a question, i dont know as much about it as i thought, or maybe i am right :confused: there may be no way too know for sure :rofl
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