SNAPSHOT -> KURSK Results

[Duckwing6]

First of all it seemed everyone had a great time and i want to thank all for their cooperation !

Ok here goes the results:

FRAME 1
Attendees: 36
VVS: 21 (59%)
Luftwaffe: 15 (41%)
Design Spilt was: 60% VVS 40% LW

Points:
Luftwaffe destroyed 17 enemy: 170 points
VVS destroyed 5 enemy: 50 points

Conclusion:
The VVS was not able to defend the A1 area and lost way over 50% of their aircraft.

The Frame was a clear victory for Luftwaffe!

Frame 2:
Attendees: 41
VVS: 24 (59%)
Luftwaffe: 17 (41%)
(Note same side split than in frame 1

Points:
Luftwaffe destroyed 14 enemy: 140 points
VVS destroyed 10 enemy: 100 points
VVS had the airsuperiority over A1 during T+20 till T+40: 100 points
Total VVS 200

AAR (at this frame a had a tad more time to put down notes .. sorry that i don't have better for the firt frame :-/)

Frame started at 30, all aircraft were airborne at T+6, at T+15 the LW formations enetered the contested area around Kharkov (A1 area) and met the first group of defending VVS fighters at T+18. A huge furball ensued in the area NE of Karkov. At this time the 2nd group which had upped at A26 was grabbing hard about 25 miles to the south of the furball and a 3rd group coming in from the west was about to make contact with LW. At T+20 the first LW fighter succeeded to shoot down a VVS aircraft. At T+25 already 5 VVS fighters are lost but at thios time the group coming in from the west starts to enter the fight with altitude and 2 minutes later the 3rd group enters the furball from the south .. this finaly pushes the LW north out of the krakov area, which establishes VVS air superiority. In the next 5 minutes of fierced fighting the LW starts to loose fighters but still holds the VVS at bay despite their superior numbers. At T+36 the fight is now about 25 miles north of A1. At T+40 both sides start RTBing their Aircraft.
Frame ends at T+47.

Conclusion:
The LW was unable to seize advantage at the start of the engagement when they had local superiority in numbers. The VVS succeeded in pushing the LW to the north out of the target area and therfore earned 100 points  for the air superiorty over Kharkov. At around T+32 the VVS and LW almost had the same numbers but the VVS was clearly at the advantage duue to thier reinforcements with the high fighters of the south group.

The 2nd frame is a victory for the VVS !

Big <S> to CAMO, the LW CO and Dinger the VVS CO !

All in all a Great Event !
I hope to see all participants in the next event !

Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger
Aces High - CM Corps

[This message has been edited by Duckwing6 (edited 10-08-2000).]

[StSanta]

Here's my AAR report.

Was flying in Kirin's group of 190's. We took off from 3 and headed SW towards A1 area, to join with the now higher 109's.

As we entered the area, a big group numerically superior to ours of LA5's came from the east - at 30+k! My Luftwaffe comrades were much surprised at this, as intelligence and testing had shown the LA-5 to be a mediocre high altitude fither, hardly capable of achieving that alt, let alone before our trusty 109G2's.

Our brave 109 pilots engaged the woeful cowardly enemy with great enhusiasm. Minutes later, our great ace Kirin shot at and downed a running pitiful LA-5, and sent the pilot freefalling towards the ground.

Superiority in numbers at any time? Well, briefly, when there were no communist fighters in the sector, but after that the red masses started blurging their way into the sector en masse.

Lo and behold! An LA-5 lower, co alt! "ZUM ANGRIFF!" I yell in the intercom, set upon making this a very bad day for the unskilled peasant LA-5 pilot who's mother is also his sister.A series of high g maneuver and the LA-5 goes into something akin to a vertical stall fight - and, thanks to my superior German training, my cannon rounds hit their marks. Fuel pour ot of the desperate LA-5 as he in vain seeks to avoid certain destruction. He dives for the deck, jinking wildly, knowing his death shall come soon.

At the deck, out of fuel, the LA-5 tries to ditch. I, being a mrercyful soul, decide to put him out of his misery in this life. But, the son of a chicken farmer ends his own life; apparently the communists do not teach their pilots how to land. He saves a few rounds for the Reich.

Low on the deck, I engage a second LA-5, who is recklessly shooting at a 109 that pours out smoke. No regard for the superior Aryan human in the 109! No respect! This cannot go unpunished. I narrow the distance but the communist infidel shoot down my comrade in arms before I can down the red scourge pilot. Alas, full of rage but with some hope as I see a chute deploy from the 109, I go for the kill. Unfortunately, yhe LA-5 escapes me and tries to flee north. Another 109 joins me in hot pursuit. After some passes, the murderous LA-5 succumbs to cannon fire only metres off the ground. No  chance of survival for that pilot methinks; the world is a better place.

I've somehow become separated from my flight, but I hear over the intercom cries for help and rush to assist in an way possible. Unfortunately, it is too late for my dear friend and leader, Kirin. With tears in my eyes I race towards the closest LA-5, head on. His peashooters score a lucky hit; a round hits my engine, sending fragments through my legs and face. Badly wounded, with engine out, I reverse and shoot down that bloody peasants wingman. And watch him burn.

Limping homewards. weak from bloodloss, I decide to ditch. What do I see - a cowardly LA-5 closing from behind intent on killing me!

BAH! Even with no engine, I easily outscissor this most lucky of fools. But, with normal stubborness of the communist pigs, he comes again. With no thrust being developed from my engine, I sadly point the nose upwards and bail. Fortunately for me, the LA-5 realizes he has met a superior pilot and bugs out, leaving me hanging in my chute alive. He must have been out of ammo.

With a personal score of 3 kills and one lost 190A5, and a squad record of 10 kills, 4 losses, I drag my bloody body towards men from the Wehrmacht who've watched the battle from the ground, finding refuge in the morphine they administer.

Great fun  

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
 

[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 10-08-2000).]

[LLv34_Camouflage]

Thank you Duckie, for a well CM'd event!    And of course, all the pilots who participated!


Frame 1 Report

The first frame went very well indeed.  I was leading my 5 G-6's to A1 area at about 20k, when we spotted 11 co-alt La5FN's.  We dragged them north into AKSWulfe's A-5's hands.  A fierce battle ensued, with me scoring the first kill.  

Rest of the 109s joined the battle too, which dropped to about 10k quickly. LW had a clear advantage over the fight and the VVS was forced to evade lower and lower.  Kills were scored by both sides, but the majority went to the LW.

I regrouped my flight and grabbed alt over the battle area, since I was sure there was more VVS coming. And sure enough, we spotted 6 cons east of A1, at about 10k.  2Cool and I went in, so they couldn't hit our boys from above. We managed to break their formation and soon they joined their komrades on the ground.  

After about 20 minutes of fierce fighting, the LW forces RTB'd.


Camo's G-6 flight, results by pilot, Frame 1:

Camo: 2 kills, RTB
2Cool: no kills, bailed SW of A2
Janjan: no kills, RTB
Kaitsu: 1 kill, RTB
Tuomio: no kills, bailed N of 1

Frame 2 Report

We were split into 3 flights again, the plan was to meet north of A1 at 25k.  When we got there, we met a large force of enemies at about 35k. We were quite surprised that the La5FN could climb there, even more surprised since they fough fiercely with no sign of power loss or tricky handling.

These La5's split up into two groups.  The other managed to drag most of the LW lower, and I had to order "climb climb" many times.  It didn't work well enough, because soon more La5's poured in from the south, and the LW was caught with their pants down.  

The fight scattered over a large area and went lower and lower where the La5's could use their better performance.  Which sounds kind of funny, since they kicked our butts also at 30k!?  I didn't even know they could climb that high...

Like Duckie told already, we suffered badly.  When the high enemies came from the south, I ordered "extend north".  The remaining LW regrouped over V38 but we were attacked by high La5's once again.  Most of us were shot down or badly damaged. Only a handful managed to RTB.


Camo's G-6 flight, results by pilot, Frame 2:

Camo: 2 kills, RTB
2Cool: no kills, RTB
Janjan: no kills, RTB
Kaitsu: no kills, ditched near V38
Tuomio: 1 kill, killed in ditching attempt near V38


Thanks for the great fun! Hope to see you in the SEA again soon!  Don't forget the Mediterranean League!  

Camo


------------------
Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
 www.muodos.fi/LLv34

Brewster into AH!

"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."

[LLv34_Camouflage]

Rofl Santa, a very vivid report indeed.  

Great flying 190's! <S>

Camo

[2Cool]

Ok, my AAR, for what it's worth:
Frame 1
I come to SEA badly late, simply to see what's going on. Immediately Camo assures me I'm just on time and attaches me to his flight as his wingie. We up a3 in due course with G6, 75% fuel, DT and only 1 gun, mine is 20mm. Pretty soon we are in 20k when enemies are spotted 3oc and slightly higher.
Flight leader orders WEP on and sahllow climbing turn to right. Enemy follows and a furball rapidly develops with 190's coming to assist us.

I spot an enemy flight closing S, and suggest Camo we make a firing pass at them. After his OK, I follow him into shallow dive maybe 1,5k behind. Camo shoots at LA5, who pulls up and seems to hang there perfectly for me to kill. Closing at 500+ IAS and airframe creaking I open fire with all guns and spot 4-5 flashes as my API rounds strike home. Then he flashes past me, and looking back I see him going for the deck. Minutes later system says "assist on gunthr". I think Citabria shot him down, eventually.

After this things get a bit disorganised. Somehow, as I scan airspace below, out of nowhere an LA5 glues onto my 6, then another one! I try to outrun them, since I know they are superior below 10k. However, even at 15k they are gaining, which I find hard to believe. (I dont't think they had much E advantage on me, maybe a little bit, however) Full WEP and shallow dive does not help. When bolscheviks open fire, I lose my rudder. Energy conscious evasives do not help. I try to run for a2 acks, but it is no use. LA5's keep closing and finally fatal cannon shells hit home. Throwing open my canopy, I bail at very low alt, yet manage to open my chute in time. I land on friendly territory and am spared the hospitality of NKVD prison camp. Intelligence later shows, that "Frenchy" the notorious bolschevik ace shot me down, but that he also met his destiny later on.

Frame 2
This is pretty uneventful. Super high enemy formations force us to N from a1 airspace. I spend most of my time running around, evading, shooting from long distance just to clear a wingman's 6 and finally extending to a2 with Camo and Janjan. Never can I close into killing distance w/o letting several enemies into my 6 in return.

All in all, very nice scenario.   I am astonished at the seemingly very good hi-alt performance of LA5. This is contrary to what the General Gehlen's Fremde Heere Ost-section has told us.    

2Cool


------------------
"It isn't allways bein' fast or even accurate that counts; it's bein' willing."

[This message has been edited by 2Cool (edited 10-08-2000).]

[Tuomio]

And heres some classified photographs, that will show the germans race superiority..  

Now santa reported about LW:s underpower. Its dangerous to be the last one on the formation in such conditions..=)
   

And what happens after situation like that? Let me show you
   

But like StSanta said, the LA-5 pilots were just a filty peasants taken from the fields, so they didnt really match for Arian LW pilot.
   

But every LA-5 pilot has its success sometimes, so one of those 5 loyal followers got a lucky shot. As i rapidly losed alt with my engine smoking and wing parts missing, 2 mighty VVS pilots tried to take this superior life out from me. Heres the first pass.
   

He missed. And so did this one.
   

And as they figured, that i were good match for them even without my engine and left aerilon, they left me to my own luck. And if youre talking about luck, thats one thing that i dont have..   I screwed my ditch and took nice bounce from the grass and ended up with my mouth full of glass and metal.

Thats my view from this event. Big <S> to you all because its been a while since i had so much fun. The adrenaline is still pumping in my veins..=)

See you soon! And i hope that it will be trough my gun view.




[This message has been edited by Tuomio (edited 10-08-2000).]

[StSanta]

Great screenshots  

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

[LLv34_Snefens]

I only attended in second frame but it was very nice, thx.

I was in 1st group under Dinger who also was the CO of VVS forces. We were given orders to  gain some alt, when he was discoed and didn't return.
After some talking I was made CO of the first flight (BUG322, manedew, mora, Creamo and DISCO), and we turned north as enemies was reported in the sector. It cleared tho and I ordered a turn east where radar now showed the enemy. Frenchy reported to be engaged at 30K with two enemy flights. At same time we spoted cons ahead and a little higher and I started climbing from my 23K.
It turned out to be last part of Frenchy's flight who arrived at same time as another flight of 109's seemed to enter the arena. They clashed together with many both planes seeking down to lower levels. I stayed hi with some of my flight, the other part diving with in. I found some of the enemies at my level (29K) and engaged. I was following a 109 in a split-s, when my RW-channel was disconnected and threw me to desktop. I quickly got back in game, now at 20K and started following the 109 who was now climbing north. I could see fighting below us on the deck, but with several enemies still up high I decided to keep on chasing the 109.
He was slowly getting away when our last flight entered the arena above us. They engaged the 109 and also the ones that was climbing further ahead. This pursuit ended up in a fight NW of my position.
Bug322 and I was going NE instead and two of the 109's now returned. We ended up with a 109 in front, Bug behind him, the other 109 and then me. I got withind shooting range and hit with a few rounds that scared the 109 a little. Bug could then hit the other 109 who lost his engine and dived away towards A2. I smoked my own target and then cut his wing.
At this time we were now close to the other fighting again and several 109's were seen smoking.
This created a good advantage in numbers and we engaged a hunt for the last 109's. After a brief fight they withdraw to the north and as they landed we turned around and headed to A1 for land.

From my flight DISCO got 2 kills, I got 1 and Bug damaged a 109 that either ditched or made it back to A2.
Only Bug and I RTB from my flight I think, but not sure.

------------------
Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34

[straffo]

Will be a simple AAR (with my bad english  )

1st frame I was flying with Frenchy and Dudule as the Normandie/niemen (fun as I'm living in Normandie myself) we spend a lot of time grabbing alt ... when suddently we spotted a lonely 109 (2cool) making B&Z passes over our camarades.
We dive on the fray to discover the compression of the LA5FN (cya dudule   )
And as 2cool said we glued on the 6 of her  poor 109 with signifiant E avantage (btw at the same time my throttle decide to stop responding   I ended rolling/skiding to loose E and avoid an overshoot) after some jinking we ended the carreer of the poor LW pilot ...  now I heard Frenchy screaming for help (1)   so with my "NotAsGoodAsBefore" La5 I tryied to help just to meet my destiny   but who care I've died for the Rodina !

(1) as some of you know Frenchy is french but as he has spent many time in the US he was speaking Franglish in RW ... it's quite disturbing to heard a mix of english/french over the radio  

2nd frame was winging with Dudule (as usual) I've got lot of trouble keeping with the formation (throttle allways out of order   ) I was unable to keep my wingman alive (my sidewinder jammed   ) I've ended on the desk with Wotan on my 6 after some T&B I decide to extend (at low level the LA5 is more efficient than the 190A5 in term of speed) and got the terrible KOD(2) accident   and so I've done a flawed "pope landing" .

(2)it was about 23:00 my time and my wife decided to go to bed : she gave me the "Kiss Of Death (try to survive a kiss when you are 10/15 feet high at >400 mph   )

Regards
Fred


[This message has been edited by straffo (edited 10-09-2000).]

[Tuomio]

Straffo apparently your wife doesent know, how serious this stuff is. You should teach her a lesson.  

[straffo]

but I'm feeling better after  
Better KOD than DweebAkazy  

[gatt]

Tuomio WOW!
Look at the third screenshot, you can call it scenario discipline   4 fighters after 1 enemy 109G ... lol

------------------
GATT
4°Stormo Caccia "F.Baracca" - Knights

[BUG_EAF322]

my conclusion too the first frame was we where only in two groups we didn't believe we could get over 30K like the luftwabbles did. The first group got cought in a lW trap.

The second group was too low too engage and got in a defensive me also i had too evade more than twice too the luftwabbles  
After a while i got behind a nazi me 109   i enclosed at 500 but got shot by his friend in the haze off war ther was no cover so The teamwork was much better from the LW in frame 1. <S>


The second frame we devided in much more groups i believe 4 (not sure)
this caught all LW groups  while there where still formations vvs in the air coming for "the place " this gave the LW big disadvantage.

btw who was that me 109 that i smoked  

I winged up with snef (and made him new leader too   ) wich was a good decision .
Coz in wingin up i stayed alive and could rtb.

Anyway great event and i like to see this growing it's why i'm still here.

<S>

[BUG_EAF322]

btw it was my first time in the La-5..

nice plane  

[SFRT - Frenchy]

First Frame

I was neatly waxing my P47-D30, wispering to his ear that :'One day, Pyro will give you a late war 56th camo with stripes and so on... be good, hold on and it will come'. I was interupted by a lood noise, Dudule was storming into the hangar by the back door :

" Frenchy, we need to go to Russia!"
"uh Oh? Are there cute chicks there?"
"better, Normandie Niemen needs help!"

long long scary trip to Russia. At least I could spend some time to meet an another French "volonteer", Straffo. Arrived on site, quickly introduced to Dingy, the local big boss.
"You french comrads will take LA5's and help defend mother Russia".
"LA what?... is that an airplane?"
"Da, all yak are grounded, go LA5 or go Goulag"
Looking at each other with Dudule and Straffo, we quickly noticed that the jocke was not into the "red Army Manual".

SO, without having the time for a glass of Vodka or a local girlie kiss, we found ourselves strapped into the cockpit of grey plane. First thing I noticed is :
" what the? you guys forgot to load the amo in this thing."
The already drunk ground creew laughted while telling something in Russian and pointing me with his finger. Ok... take off signal goes on, roll them.

Our little group of 3 is grabbing heading NW while the main LA5 group turns NE. Always strange to see our 3 planes going away from a massive formation, I couldn't help to think that I was stupid somehow.

"skschhhhht... Group 1 will level at 18K....skssst"

"Dudule, Straffo, we go 23K, let's fly North and flank the attacking group... BTW, what plane are we fighting?".
"109's G something and FW190-A8 something".
"oh oh oh... let's climb  "
"any idea what this plane is good for?"
"I eard Wep is no use above 8k"
"awsome!"
"I have a bad feeling about this one"
"me too"
"let's use the 56th tactic, don't go below 15K"


radio chatter..."here they are"..."tatatata"..."I'm hit"..."I'm dead?!?".."got 1"... "uh oh!"..."N A1"..."blahblah".

"Dudule, Straffo, 23K, let's turn 090 toward dogfight area, prop full foward, MP to max".
" single pip 11 o'c higher"
"ok, let's grab more, turn to 180"
"5 pips 12 O'c higher"
"geez, those guys are high, we passing 26K... let's turn back 270, grab to 30K and come back"
"it's uncharted territory 25K+ in a LA5"

After extending to grab some alt we came back towardthe dogfight area.

"I see a HUGE furball down there, 1 o'c"
"yep, WOW... "
"co-alt dot, 12 O'c"
"let's check it out"
"109!"
"let's take him out, he's B&Zing"

3 vs 1   nobody higher sweet  

The 109 spotted us, and did a short serie of split S, I could stick in his 6. I was obsessed by those 400 rounds only, I wanted to get within 300y minimum. Finally, when the 109 pilot saw I was still there, he dived straight down. Whohoooooooo! here we go, I love those! Close from the deck, the 109 goes level. I ear Dudule on the radio :
"compression!".. plus some French insults you don't want to know, then silence... I lost my first wingman without even fighting

Using small corrections, I level back into the 109 6 o'c ... 600 y and closing. He goes for some barrel roll, sweet. i'm a P47 pilot, I know how to keep my E hehehe. As he is rolling, I keep a fairly straight course as I finally end up in his 300-400y... 350...300... Shoot! Hey! Where did he go! Expecting my rain of bullet, the 109 did a high G barrel roll, instantaneously clearing my gunsight, just when I was pressing the trigger... "humm... he's good *&^%$#@".

I went 30 degrees climb, and rolled to the right, there he is, hard turning to the right to go into a shallow valley, then hard turning to the left. I level and pitch down parrallel to his course, Straffo is on him for a short period, looks like his LA5 maintenance creew played trick on him  
I shallow dived into the valley, closing in on the 109. Looks like he changed his evasives, he is now doing some very wide evasive manouevers... "he is keeping is E"

I keept flying into my shallow dive, closing on him... 700y..600y...500y...400y going below him. He is coming back on my gunsight, gentlly all by him self... 350y... he starts a gentle left turn with 20 deg of bank... NOW!!! TUMTUMTUMTUM... serie of impacts, wing ripping off... WHOHOOOOOOOO!!!!! At least i got 1. (Salute to 2cool)

I pull 45 degr nose up, looks my 6 first, then around, all clear except a bandit turnfighting Straffo on the deck.
"OMY Straffo".. I'm setting up my vulch, quick 6 check... "AHHH!!!!! 4 bandits within my 1.5K in my 6"... radip nose down barrel roll, just in time to see the first 109 zooming next to me. "Miserable sneacky germans, never saw them coming".

I keep flying straight when I can, 1K alt to deck. Each look on my 6 scares me, the 4 of them are still here, comeing 1 after the other diving for the kill on me. Quickly looking around, I'm alone, no friendly, and Straffo just went down  

Ok, it's just a question of time now, you guys will kill me, but you will have to work for it! barrel rools, facke split S, scizors... the whole set of evasives followed by the manual of "I'm in trouble I need help" were applied.

1-3-4-6 minutes, they still on me, all I can do is try to avoid. Hey!... maybe not! A 109 just overshoot me and is starting a out of speed climb right above my nose. I will not go down alone   ... Out of E too, I start pulling up... he's a cople of inches above my gunsight, gnneuungeuuuuuu pulling nose gently up, come in..come in... 1 inch more... don't stall Russian flying can... almost... there! BLAMBLAMBLAM... KABOUM!!! Yeah!!! number 2 (Snorkels)... "how does it feel German terrorists to see your friend burning?..uh?"

Well, that's an answer I will never know, as Wilfrid, blasted me out of the sky 2 barel rolls later  .

(Salute to those 4 german pilots, it was a fun time).

LA5 Group 2 : 3 losses, 2 kills.

Frame2
GF was mad but i stayed to lead the group two. (Snorkey, Gium, Jcy19, Thorin, Storm, Straffo, Dudule).
We climbed to 30K. When we made contact with 2 large German groups, higher than us. We tried to evade and I ordered to split in two groups (1 flying level 240, 1 climbing 300).
They came in Co-alt but with way more E. This degenerated in a messy furball.

I managed to get into a 190 6 at 400Y and pinged him, but simultaneously I saw 2 germans storming by me while I eard bullets impacts. While rolling over to dive I saw a wing floating by with a Red Star on it  

Flying 400-350 MPH I could maintain control of my plane and keep a general heading for my homebase. Full aileron trim and full rudder trim toward the missing wing tip. Gently diving to A1, nobody following me... hey! I may survive this. I could make it back to A1, while attempting a landing I could barrely maintain general heading within +-30 degrees. At 200ft trying to land near my runway, when reaching 180 MPHA and wheel down, the plane abruptly started to loose directional control and rolloed toward the ground. By pitching down even more I regained speed and aileron control, I buzzed the ground and a Bomber Hanger and could barely maintain a positive VSI. (Those having experienced an engine failure on a twin around VMC know what I'm talking about).

Looking at my damages, I have no rudder, no wonder I lost it. I came back other my base in a long turn and bailed safely right above it giving a kill to.... Kirin  

LA5 Group 2 report: Nobody sent me via email their report  

kills (unknown), loss (at least 1)

Wow...long post ... sry hihihi

Be safe all, Frenchy.