GMT TOD #5 - Axis AAR

[Kirin]

Axis CO AAR:

Mission:
Our goal was it to bomb the Allied HQ in sector 11.7. Due to bomber shortage we were forced to perform this raid with FW190 which made the mission very difficult if not suicidle. It was obvious that none of the FW190 would make it home so only volunteers were taken. Escort consisted of 2 flights of BF109-G6.

Roster:

• Jabo:[/b]Camo(FL) - Mercury, Staga, Sabre
  
• Escort1:Sefens(FL) - ace1172, SR2053, TOWD, BeTown
  
• Escort2:Visconti(FL) - Dogftr, SCBecks, Lucchini, BigJoe, Funked
  
  
  Timeline:
  
  Jabo and Escort2 took off from F17, while Escort1 was sent ahead as spearhead from F20. Escort1 was ordered to only engage scouts and drag enemy main force away from Jabo. Escort2 was ordered close escort for Jabo.
  
  While Jabo and its escort rode the 11 line (north-south) Escort1 was flying high in the middle of the sector to ensure minimal radar information at maximal confusion potential. After ten minutes of flight Camo, FL of Jabo, was forced to return to base due to engine problems (disco). Also Escort1 lost two planes due technical difficulties (ace1172, TOWD - disco). I think it is time to replace our technicians!
  
  The Jabo group made contact first. They were jumped by a flight of about 6 Spitfires flying at 30k!!! (as for ceiling was set 25k by convention). Escort2 bravely engaged the Fighters in order to let Jabo push through the enemy and continue for their target.
  
  Meanwhile Escort1 encountered a group of P38s and were engaged.
  
  Bravely the 190, being almost dry, pushed through the enemy lines and reached their target. They dropped their deadly load perfectly as planned and went for their escape. One FW190 after the other ran out of fuel while trying to get as near to friendly lines as possible.
  
  Results by pilots:
  
• Registered:

Sr2053 - 1kill(P38) - ditched in friendly territory
Visconti - 1kill(Spit) - bailed over enemy territory
Dogftr - bailed over enemy territory
BigJoe - bailed over enemy territory

• Unknown/Walkon:

Sabre - ditched in enemy territory
ace1172 - rtb due engine problems
TOWD - rtb due engine problems
BeTown - shot down
SCBecks - rtb
Funked - shot down

• Dead/Opfor:

no kills recorded


Mission objective met

Congratulations gentlemen the HQ was flatened but we payed dearly. Your efforts will be remembered especially those who gave their life shall be honoured.

End of AAR


Another challenging mission from SAW - <S>. Looking forward to the remaining TOD! But as in the first mission the fact was forgotten that our LW planes only can carry a bomb OR a droptank. Sending FW190s that deep into enemy territory for a jabo-mission is suicide. Luckily we had enough Opfor to fill their ranks kamikaze like. That brings up another thing: I had more than twice the numbers of Opfor and Walkons than registered pilots. Only 1/4 of the pilot who registered actually showed up. With only ONE who announced his absence in advance. This is a state which will not be tolerated by LW command...  =) no - seriously it's hard to plane in advance that way...
One more thing: In sector 11.8.1 Escort2 encountered a flight of spits which was flying at 30k. Ceiling was clearly announced 25k. Violating this rule, especially in this difficult mission, really shifts the game balance! I hereby suggest that ALL bailed axis forces will be counted still active! I don't want to punish anyone, I just want my boys to be treated fair!!!


Kirin out

[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 03-31-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 03-31-2000).]

[Skyrader]

Hi Kirin,

i was the CO of the Spit flight,
here 3 screenshoots from the event
when we meet the 109 + 190.
Look at the Altitude Gauge, it shows
23k. I think Fariz (Spit Pilot) was a bit
higher then all other Spits, about +1k.
So much for the Altitude  
 http://www.angelfire.com/games/g99/TOD5a.gif  http://www.angelfire.com/games/g99/TOD5b.gif  http://www.angelfire.com/games/g99/TOD5c.gif

Allied AAR comming soon.

[snafu]

Hi Kirin,
 Nice report. I was in the spit squadron (Thanks VISCONTI I don't think).

We were not @ 30K we were @ 24K and as I recall you approached in a gentle dive. ie starting higher than us

Could this be a bug? Altimeter readings showing different readings.

TTFN
snafu

[Kirin]

Snafu, Skyrader - I don't want to accuse you breaking the rules, if this is a missunderstanding I am very sorry. I am just relying on the report of Visconti, a very good pilot I know for some time and I can trust in. Visc, if ya read this please clear the situation. From his reports the Spits were in a gentle dive. I think somebody got screenshots on our side too.

Nevertheless the mission was great fun. Axis completed the mission but paid a very high prize. We are LW after all - what do lifes count??      Just kidding - I care about every single one of you, but if there would have been a chance to call abort it would have been before take-off!

[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 03-31-2000).]

[Baddawg]

I have a film of the engagement i never knew there was a controversy?(or was there)?
Anyhow  some of the Spits were higher than us but i was at exactly 23,680 at meeting of the Spits
Visconti was ahead of me  and above maybe by 200 feet. 2 spits are clearly co-alt with me  2 spits  are likely at 25,000 one spit seems  a tad higher. no biggie   .

But if there is to be  a public flogging may i attend please ,please ?(tongue planted firmly in cheek )
 Great fun
Btw if anyone wants to see this film  please e-mail me ,(my email is posted in this bbs info) i can send it to you, it turned out quite  good.

Baddawg aka  Dogftr
Corresponding  for Dogfighter.com


[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 03-31-2000).]

[VISCONTI]

My report:

I see high dots on my 2 o'clock and i was at 25-24k about (not sure if they was at 30k but i'm sure they was higher), 190 at 22k and Escort 1 covering the east side of the 190. They close on us whit a little dive and when the fight started we was almost coalt (fight started at about 23-24k). Engaged a Spit whit Dogftr on my wing.
The rest of my group was downed in 2 mins, and finally i was jumped by 2 spit and downed,bailed and dumped  .
My mistake was to take gondolas, sorry all  .
I was sure to meet P51 or P38, spits surprised me.

Dogftr, plz post some pics of the film if u can.


PS: sry for my poor english  

[funked]

Visconti's altitude varied wildy once we "leveled" at 25k so I can't say what our altitude was at the merge.

[Kirin]

AAR update:

Almost forgot that I was shot down in a C47 during a rescue mission   - allied AAR reminded me about that...


About the alt issue: It looks like the majority of reports does speak against a ceiling violation. Saw - please review the material and make your decision.

BTW, I didn't know we had a correspondant for a major sim-page in our ranks...  

[B-Town]

Well,
This mission was great!
Apart from the fact that I forgot to attach a drop tank and ran out of fuel   I replained in a C47 and went to pick up my good buddy sabre   (Who was it that filmed my landing?) Anyhoo. Unfortunately our C47 was attacked by nmy spits and we both ended up walking back to base.
Question: Is it really fair to shoot down civvie transports?? I was only trying to get my buddies home but I still got shot down... Bad karma...
Fun mission. If a bit suicidal  

[Bull]

Hi All,

I agree it was a great mission.  

As far as shooting C47's....
I  try to disable a/c only, I try not to destroy a/c.... We need all the persioners we can get.

Also, you could always bail when you see a/c dive down on you.  

Bull
 

[Baddawg]

 http://www.vicer.com/99th/Messhall/luck.jpg

 http://www.vicer.com/99th/Messhall/imhit.jpg
 http://www.vicer.com/99th/Messhall/glider.jpg

Just a couple of screen shots
here is the film
 http://www.vicer.com/99th/Messhall/film22.zip



[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 04-01-2000).]

[Skyrader]

hey Dogftr,

kewl film    
i was the Spit you hit at the end of the Film, was chasing SCBecks down on the ground.
Good evasives SCBecks <S>, couldn hit you really.
I really was thinking what this smoking 109
wanted from me, was a bit surprised     and had 0 amo left.
Btw. you shoot my rudder to nirvana!  

Skyrader
<out>




[This message has been edited by Skyrader (edited 04-02-2000).]

[Fariz]

I was a bit higher that others, but I clearly remember that I was AT 24K. So no violation. Also, attackning 109 dived on us, so they were a bit higher or, at least, level. Also, guys, you really need to think about tactics, both Axis and Allies, for such attack all CO should be court martualled. The only reason spits servived and made such a success was very bad Axis tactic, who totally lost control in the battle. We were outnumbered in the start of engagement, and our high kills and little losts is very strange, and impossible if you will adopt some of historical tactics of LW.

Also, that c47 rescues is noncence. What is it, Veitnam and c47 is a choper to land in the enemy territory? Or guys are jumping in the door of flying-by plane?

I can suggest another scheme -- bail in the enemy territory means 1/2 kill, i.e. second chuting will mean death. For bailing on friendly territory it is 1/4 kill (still possible that chute did not opened, etc.) That will make it more realistic.

Regards,

Fariz

[VISCONTI]

LOL!!

Our mission was "escort the Jabo".
We forced to engage the spit to let our 190 go to theyr target.
The gondolas give us a big problem against the spits, but we succesful stoped the spits forcing them to fight.
Our mission was a succes on my eyes cause the Fw190 was not killed.
WTG to all the brave LW pilots of escort 2 that engaged and stoped the spits.

Ende.

[Fariz]

 

Originally posted by VISCONTI:
LOL!!
Our mission was a succes on my eyes cause the Fw190 was not killed.
WTG to all the brave LW pilots of escort 2 that engaged and stoped the spits.

Hint, both 190 and 109 faster planes than spits are. Even with heavy load.

The best way to do this cover was: 190 dives slightly to accelerate and goes to the target, 109 dives on spits to force them into defence and to lose e and grab 45 degree of the course 190 goes. Then 2 may happen.

a) spits go after 190s. Ok, but then they could be caught by the escort, who is still faster that spits.

b) they can try to catch 109, which, in this case should symply drag them away.

Main mistake of allies were the fact, that 38 should stay little bit behind the spits and catch them while no escort with them. 38s are faster that spits, and with that alt restrictions not effective as fighters.

If you speak in terms of fun, then the way it happened were more fun, we faught and killed so lets call it fun battle. But in terms of effectivness it was a failure, loses were much heavier that they could be.

Fariz