Author Topic: Death - is this what divides?  (Read 2253 times)

Offline Lusche

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2008, 12:22:35 PM »
But is a score of 0 really perfection? :noid

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Offline waystin2

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2008, 12:25:40 PM »
Pickers calling pickers out!   :rofl As I said in an earlier post------>everybody picks!  Everybody.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 12:27:40 PM by waystin2 »
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Offline MachNix

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2008, 12:29:47 PM »
When it comes to death, HTC gives a mixed signal.  I try to use score (which is different than rank) to gage if I am playing the game the way HT intended.

Just to focus on the furball for a second, by staying in the furball and getting as many kills you can until you die, gives you the best kills per hour score but hurts your kills per death.  If you manage your fuel/ammo and look to exit the fight when running low and land your kills, it gives you the best kills per death score but then hurts you kills per hour.  The two scores are in opposition to each other.  Now, if we look at bombers as a comparison, there is only damage per death and no damage per hour.  This tells me HTC expects us to land our bomber flights.  Therefore, what HTC is saying is to fly the furball the way you want.  Is anyone else's opinion important to you?

I personally try to land all my flights.  It takes more work getting out of a fight then it took to get into the fight in the first place.  You just have to endure being called a "chicken" when you do.

MachNix
 Edit: Somehow what I posted in another thread got added here too.  That added part has been removed.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 02:04:51 PM by MachNix »

Offline NoBaddy

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2008, 12:32:57 PM »
But is a score of 0 really perfection? :noid

Well...since it's HT's scoring system, perfection is what he says it is.  :D
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Offline smokey23

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2008, 12:33:34 PM »
Beware the mob :rofl we dont care about perks, score, rank or any other aspect of scoring me especially my fighter rank blows and i die almost every sortie.If i was to land one woopity do   :rock ,We will do what it takes if that meens HO , ram , pick , gang, doesnt matter to us. We've been called every derogatory name in the book. We get a good laugh out of it.  :rofl  We fly for the pure fun of flying a cartoon plane and seeing what we can shoot down if its red we will shoot at it. :rock

Offline Kweassa

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2008, 12:39:46 PM »
 The analogy is wrong, Anaxagoras.

 The way you describe it makes people think that there are actually people who don't care about deaths and just fly around for fun. As if there exists an antagonism between the "I do all I do to survive" kind and the "I only care about fun" kind.

 However, in reality, there's no such thing as an "I only care about fun" kind of people in the MA.

 The self-described "I only care about fun" folk are usually shrouded in a cloudy layer of self-devised deception, in the fact that they compensate for the dangers of "fun" flying by usually flying at places on the map that minimizes the dangers of being shot down. They usually like to describe it as "SA".


 For instance, if they really care about fun, in theory you should see as much as them as anywhere on the map. However, in reality, you don't see them upping in superbly "target rich" environments. You don't see them getting up from vulched fields, you don't see them getting up under disadvantageous circumstances.

 Take for example, some of the more prominent squads in the MA. They usually lead attacks into undefended parts of the maps. The first to launch offensives while the local airsuperiority shifts into their own favor. However, you don't see that same squad upping from badly outnumbered fields. Why? Because upping under those circumstances, for the objective of defending bases, means that they will be shot down a lot while attempting to defend. It's NO FUN.

 I've met almost every person in this thread whom professes to "fly for fun", either as a friend or a foe. Unfortunately for them, the only circumstances I've actually met most of them are while they are solely on an advantageous offensive. And as long as they are totally free to choose wherever they want to fly on the map, they can always pick the best spots to fight as fun as they like, and still remain victorious in most of the cases.

 
 In short, its one of those vet shams.

 They ridicule the average pilot for wanting to survive, always running away, and whatever these underskilled pilots need to do to survive as being "cowardly" and "no fun"... but at the same time, they are always the swarmers, hordesmen, mass GV attackers, flying mid-war planes at 20k and jumping down on fools who've been lured to open spaces, BnZing, cherrypicking, etc. etc. ad nauseaum.

 Ofcourse its fun to fly in winning fights.

 However, just for the sake of argument, give me the right to limit and designate where some of these people can fly on the map, and I guarantee, every single one of those "I fly for fun" people will definately be flying in a very different style - for survival.

 
 In short, the people who claim they don't care about deaths, are those who usually fly under circumstances where they'd not have to worry about relatively high risks in the first place.
 

Offline toonces3

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2008, 12:40:39 PM »
I think there's a fine line between putting too much emphasis on living, and not enough emphasis.

I admire the person who ups against nearly hopeless odds for a base defense.  Heck, sometimes it even works.

I hate the person who is too unskilled, impatient, or what adjective you prefer, who suicide bombs a radar rather than set up a proper attack run.

If you place no value on your virtual life, it is very easy to do many things in this game.  

For me, I up sometimes into odds I know I probably won't win against.  I up planes that aren't 'uber' and may not give me the best chance of survival.  But if I'm gonna go out there in the virtual sky, I'm gonna fight my bum off to live to RTB.

I get far more satisfaction milking my severely wounded A-20 for 20 minutes to RTB with 1 or 2 kills than going down in a ball of flame carrying 9.  Neither way is 'the' way to play, but that's what I enjoy so it's what I do.
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Offline NoBaddy

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2008, 12:41:19 PM »
There was a time when an opinion like mine was the solid majority, but maybe it's the AW crowd here, I don't really know...  I remember reading threads at argo's where people proposed sending someone who died back to a rear-airfield as a penalty, or making them wait one full minute before they could replane.  No kidding. :O

Hmm, in AH? I was here prior to the demise of AW and I don't ever remember such a time. Were there always players that put such a premium on living that they could be described as "timid", you betcher great wide butt!!! However, they have never been the majority. In point of fact, they have always been the minority (here and in AW). While there are folks that have made the suggestions you posted, no one with any common sense could take them seriously...in large part, because they make bad business sense. The MA isn't a scenario.
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Offline FiLtH

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2008, 12:45:02 PM »
   What I'm about to type is not meant as an insult toward any type of player. But I'm sure some will take it that way. So, in advance, my apologies if it offends.

    The idea of staying alive in a video game, means very little. Yes its great to get kills, and win the fight, but if this means spending most of the time avoiding fights, even one on one fights if the player feels he doesnt have a great advantage, to many is'nt fun. As someone who flies low and slow, and gets killed alot, my excuse for playing that way, is because I have little patience, and even less interest in flying around in this gamesight-seeing. Frankly, there aint much to see.

     I would much rather throw myself into bad situations, and have some exciting moments, even if it leads to my demise, than to spend most of the flight climbing or extending. Thats my reason for playing how I play.

     Now lets look at the reasons someone else would play only the survival above all else method.

SCORE- For some people to spend as much time playing a game, like most of us do, they want a reward for their efforts. Score can be that reward. Many percieve score/rank as the identifier of the best pilots. I would disagree there, but it means something to some.

REALISM- I save this for events where I have one life. I dont think it belongs in the MA where realism isnt a factor to begin with. P51s fighting P51s, anything goes. The only thing real in the MA is the design we were given to play with.

SKILL LEVEL- I hate to use the word skill when talking about a video game, but I'll use it for lack of a word that means to do well at something that isnt very important. (Easy now..)
There are alot of players in here who are good at fighting, from the begiining of the fight at altitude, all the way through if it gets slow, and requires better instinct at where to point your plane, when to chop throttle, and all the stuff required when it gets low and slow.

   However, the majority of players are average, some below average. Many of these players realize they have limitations on what they can make a plane do in here. Some are quite open about it and say they use the best planes, or run when it starts to get slow because they know this. Many others...(steady) simply use the idea of "realism" as a mask to conceal the fact they dont do well when the advantage is'nt in their favor, or even if the advantage is a draw. These are often the ones who will also belittle the way many of us who don't care about surviving, fly.

   So just to clear it up, if someone truly is disappointed in a player who gets in fights, dies,and re-ups, there are just as many who are disappointed in those that run and wait to pick someone they didnt want to fight when the odds were more even.

 The world is full of disappointments, I'm just one of them.

   There..that about covers it.

~AoM~

Offline BnZ

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2008, 12:45:32 PM »
Kweassa,you have an incredibly dark, cynical, and pessimistic viewpoint.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2008, 12:56:14 PM »
Hmm, in AH? I was here prior to the demise of AW and I don't ever remember such a time. Were there always players that put such a premium on living that they could be described as "timid", you betcher great wide butt!!! However, they have never been the majority. In point of fact, they have always been the minority (here and in AW). While there are folks that have made the suggestions you posted, no one with any common sense could take them seriously...in large part, because they make bad business sense. The MA isn't a scenario.

No, I was hinting at the old days of WB before AH existed.
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Offline Yenny

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2008, 12:58:06 PM »
Anaxogoras and I wing up a lot to provide CAP on enemy air field. When one of our air field is under heavy attack, we take a wing up usually 4 190s and attack the air field the enemy is coming from. We usually face pretty heavy odd, but keep them surrounded within their air field and give our air field a break. Now this is what Anaxogoras means by survival. We usually face 1 to 3 odds in these sortie. Usually we make it back home with around 15-20 between the 4 of us. It's not much but it take a lot of SA and team work to force that air field to play defensive for a bit giving our guy on our air field time to come up and get some E.
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Offline toonces3

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2008, 12:58:08 PM »
Filth,
You need to draw a distinction between the 'I don't care if I live' furball mentality (what Murdr seems to have), and the bomb and bail, suicide porker guy.

I, personally, have no problem with the furball to the death mentality.  I don't agree with it, I don't do it, but I don't mind folks that do.

I hate, and I think what divides is, the suicide mentality.  

It is so very easy to set up a proper attack run to kill anything in this game.  But some folks prefer to take the path of least resistance because, for whatever reason, they place no value on their virtual life.  How many folks suicided into A43 last night?  It was over, and over, and over.

Why do I care?  Because I would strongly prefer to have someone set up a proper attack that I can defend against instead of the suicide porker (eg. the lone, heavy P-51 coming in at 12k and then diving straight into the radar/FH/ords/etc.) that I follow down and get the proxy.  I can't precisely tell you what about that bothers me, but man alive, it offends my sensibilities so much in this game.

IF HTC WOULD IMPLEMENT SOME SORT OF TIME DELAY FOR ATTACK/BOMB DAMAGE TO BECOME 'PERMANENT' THIS TYPE OF DWEEBY BEHAVIOR WOULD BE CUT DOWN DRAMATICALLY.

How about the typhoon over A43 last night?  He does 3 low, full speed passes on the runway, collecting vulches until somebody finallly corners him enough to kill him.  Where was the skill in that?  Where was the 'fun'?  Anyone can come in at Mach 1 and vulch the runway and collect their 9 kills if they don't care about living through the attack.

THE SUICIDE MENTALITY IS WEAK, AND DOES NOT ENHANCE GAMEPLAY.

My opinions.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 01:01:17 PM by toonces3 »
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Offline FiLtH

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2008, 01:02:42 PM »
  Ya Im not referring to those types. Pure suicidal play is lame. There is a difference from putting yourself in a bad spot and hoping for a good outcome, and doing something knowing what the outcome will be. P47s augering into CVs come to mind.

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Offline JagdTankker

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Re: Death - is this what divides?
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2008, 01:04:30 PM »
Anaxogoras and I wing up a lot to provide CAP on enemy air field. When one of our air field is under heavy attack, we take a wing up usually 4 190s and attack the air field the enemy is coming from. We usually face pretty heavy odd, but keep them surrounded within their air field and give our air field a break. Now this is what Anaxogoras means by survival. We usually face 1 to 3 odds in these sortie. Usually we make it back home with around 15-20 between the 4 of us. It's not much but it take a lot of SA and team work to force that air field to play defensive for a bit giving our guy on our air field time to come up and get some E.

i have never heard vulching put into those terms before, amazing....simply amazing.
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