TOD 8/17/00

[SpyHawk]

I must say I was slightly dissapointed by the matchup of 1941 Spit V's against 1944 Zeke 5b's. I didn't get the final tally, but we (the allies) from everything I saw, got clobbered. It was ugly.

//end whine

[LLv34_Camouflage]

Hi Spyhawk!

You're saying the SpitV is inferior to the Zeke 5b?  

I flew on the axis side, in a zeke.  Just before the takeoff, as we were setting up our comms and RW, I took a look at the performance charts here at the HTC website.  The SpitV is faster and climbs better than the zeke. The spit also has superior Hispano cannons.  We estimated that we would have a hard battle to face.  Wingman tactics would be essential.  

Well, the fight was fierce on both sides, and many pilots were lost.  I believe only a handful on zekes RTB'd. That said, I think the spits did even worse.  But that goes down to team tactics. The spits dove low way too early in the fight.  Also your hi cover got tied up by our flight.  

Anyway, it the event was a blast, and well balanced.  The Axis pilots' good team work saved many lives, and we managed give the spits a good run for their money.  

Oh yeah, I got one kill (Zigrat), and our flight of 3 RTB'd safely.  

<S> to all pilots who participated!

See you again on saturday!  
 
Camo

------------------
Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
 www.muodos.fi/LLv34

Brewster into AH!

"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."

[This message has been edited by LLv34_Camouflage (edited 08-18-2000).]

[Fury]

My personal feelings are that there was no way in heck I was comfortable going into the initial merge.  From what I could see at frst, the Axis planes were in one bunch with d2.0 seperation, and it looked like all the Allies were in one bunch.  I was worried that the initial merge would turn into a furball quickly, and I would end up with a difficult time keeping track of people and staying alive.

When I saw three Allies off to the NW of the merge, I took the opportunity to avoid the initial merge and furball by splitting off towards the three spits (I was not part of the group Camo is referring to but I was in the area with them for a while).  The three spits did not merge with us and we ended up going around in circles chasing them for what seemed like almost 5 minutes.  By that time, I could see that the initial merge furball had descended well below the 18.5k merge alt and I saw a *lot* of allied chutes.  The three spits eventually got close enough and low enough to the furball that I dropped down behind them and ended up settling behind someone (did not get the kill).  After that, there were not many Allies left in the area.

I don't know the final score either, but it looked to me like the Allies took it hard.  I'm not one to question tactics (I need to have them myself before I question anyone elses') but from what I could tell, all but 3 for sure and maybe 5 Allies were part of the initial merge.  I think it got to a large furball state a little early and that ended up with heavy losses.  I think the Allies (and possibly Axis) suffered heavily because there were too many planes in one place at one time (from my perspective).

I had a lot of fun, it sucks that I have to miss the next three flights  

Fury

[eskimo]

It was a great fight!  
When that many planes meet at once, you can be sure that there will be a furball, and a lot of planes will be going down.  

BTW, I would take the Spit-V over the A6M-5 any day.  Many times I would get on a spits 6 and he would zoom out of range before I could get my pipper on him.  All but 1 Zero that I saw die blew up in the air, they don't hold up well to fire.  I did see several allied chutes, however, but they are all POWs now, so the point is mute.

eskimo

[Swoop]

Figures at start of event:

Allies....11 pilots.

Axis......16 pilots.


ok.


Swoop

[SpyHawk]

C-E merge with A6M5b against Spit V. I'll take the Zeke anyday.

The only advantage the spit has in that situation is the cannons.

We were not at full speed on the merge, and we were fairly disorganzied. As far as I know only one Allied pilot RTB'd (Renfield). I'd beleive the Zekes probably had a supperior E-state at that point.

One thing that surprised me is that we found the enemy a hell of a lot sooner than I thought we would. Maybe that's why we were so unprepaired.

[RAM]

   

Originally posted by SpyHawk:
C-E merge with A6M5b against Spit V. I'll take the Zeke anyday.

Then you are crazy,Spitfire is better hands down.
   

The only advantage the spit has in that situation is the cannons.

and speed. And climbrate. and Acceleration, and visibility. And toughness. And machineguns, and Hispeed handling,and...


may I follow?


   

We were not at full speed on the merge, and we were fairly disorganzied. As far as I know only one Allied pilot RTB'd (Renfield). I'd beleive the Zekes probably had a supperior E-state at that point.

Both things are YOUR fail not ours. If you arent at full speed is YOUR fault. If you are disorganized is YOUR problem.

BTW the only one who returned (Renfield) to his field did a HO to a Zero(me), and he is damned lucky I tried to avoid it instead of kicking his damned dweeb bellybutton as he deserved.
That way he'd never had returned.

I was alone against 2 spitVs and he HOs...I guess that then he ran screaming like a little girl.

BTW the odds were 12-15 as Sabre said online. Nothing like 11-16.

Go and get a towel. Or go and cry to other side of the fence, please.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-18-2000).]

[Renfield]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
BTW the only one who returned (Renfield) to his field did a HO to a Zero(me), and he is damned lucky I tried to avoid it instead of kicking his damned dweeb bellybutton as he deserved. That way he'd never had returned.

I was alone against 2 spitVs and he HOs...I guess that then he ran screaming like a little girl.

Well, Hi there RAM. What a fine upstanding member of the community we have here. I am posting my film in case anyone would like to see the "HO". It is HERE

First, it ALWAYS takes two to HO. Second, if you view the film you will see it was not a straight in "HO". Third, I don't remember what I was looking at during the merge or when I saw you. I think anyone who views from my vantage point would agree that I was not trying for the "HO".

So screw your boney, HO-whining ass. I think you are just pissed because I blew your bellybutton up and you don't get to continue.

As to running home like a little girl - read the message buffer through the fight - I took damage early on and yet I returned TWICE to try to help countrymen. I killed you on the second trip in (my second kill by the way).

And being the ONLY Spitfire left in the air, low, and damaged, yes I did RTB. Do I give a rat's bellybutton about your opinion. Nope. And I'd shoot your butt out of the sky again given the same circumstances. With your attitude, I am actually quite glad you "blowed up real good".

Have a nice day.  

[Renfield]

Oh, and getting whiney about being "alone" with two Spits before I "HO"'ed you is really pushing the limits of whine. May I offer you some cheese?

You come in telling the Allieds it was our fault we merged slow and disorganized. How about your SA, bud? Who's fault was it you got out there by yourself with two Spits? Yours and yours alone.

So just quit the whining or should we get a pacifier to shut your crying up?

[RAM]

   

Originally posted by Renfield:
You come in telling the Allieds it was our fault we merged slow and disorganized. How about your SA, bud? Who's fault was it you got out there by yourself with two Spits? Yours and yours alone.

Yes I guess it so. I dived recklessy to help StSanta ,who was being gangbanged by you 2 Spitfires. Just as I arrived he exploded in one thousand pieces, and was too late to disengage.

Uh...yeah...lack of SA. I guess you'd have let your buddy be banged by 2 cons and then said "oh no, sorry my SA said it was too dangerous".

But I dont.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-18-2000).]

[RAM]

Ah, and it was a clear HO. It doesnt take 2 to headon, one can try to evade it. I tried to do it. (only simple 0g dive, as I had no chances to lose any E with 2 spits to fight)

You only shoot your hispanos. I'd better have shredded your sorry bellybutton to bites before that (Had track on you since before but didn force the shoot as I knew it'd end in a HO). You were coming for a HO and I know it. You know it.

And I dont mind a S*** what anyone else can think.

You say I'm pissed because I died. You are right I am. BUt not because I died, no. Because i died at a HO dweeb's hands.

And yeah it hurts.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-18-2000).]

[Renfield]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
You say I'm pissed because I died. You are right I am. BUt not because I died, no. Because i died at a HO dweeb's hands.

And yeah it hurts.

Uh, watch the film, dweeb. I headed back into battle TWICE after stating I was damaged and wanted to RTB. But no, I was going back for my comrades. So don't get all high and mighty on me. The proof is in the film.

And about the HO, say whatever you want. You died. I replayed the film and here is the play-by-play:

Zigrat killed your bud and you were diving in. You went for me but I forced an overshoot with scissors. Zigrat passed underneath and you tried for him and missed. You pulled up into a half-Cuban while I was cornering for all I could. I ended up pointed nose up at you and you ended up pointed nose down at me. We each skidded to try to land bullets on the other. I smoked you and you missed. We passed about a wing apart - me just blow and outside your port wing. You died. I lived. End of story.

It was a fair fight and you bit the dust. I feel your pain. No, really I do.  

The film is all the proof I need and anyone is welcome to view it and see. You are just a crybaby, RAM. I expected better and thought you were a better player.

I was wrong. You are just a dweeb.

[eskimo]

Man! and I thought that I took things a bit too seriously! ...  Chill out guys.  

eskimo

[Renfield]

 

Originally posted by eskimo:
Man! and I thought that I took things a bit too seriously! ...  Chill out guys.  

eskimo

I never thought anything of it Eskimo - until I came here and saw where RAM decided to rail me and squeak about a supposed HO then claim I went running home like a "little girl". He then went on to claim that I wouldn't help friends (as he of course would) when the proof that I was doing just that was in the film in spite of taking airframe damage. I just won't stand for that kind of crap.

He came out swinging so I came out swinging baseball bats. This one wasn't my fault. I won't stand by and be trashed by someone - especially when it is so easy to prove my side and case.

We both came out of maneuvers pointed at each other in exceptionally close quarters - that isn't an HO in my book. He is just a guilty of whatever you want to call it as I was.

And his claim that he was getting ganged by us also falls apart. He came in fast while we were slow yet instead of bugging, he scissored, overshot, tried for Zigrat, and then tried again for me. Yeah, he was real trapped by us all right. He was stupid is what he was and wants to blame us for getting in over his head.

[RAM]

   

Originally posted by Renfield:
Uh, watch the film, dweeb.

did it yesterday. 3 times.

You pulled up into a half-Cuban while I was cornering for all I could.

Correct. I was upside down , I could have started the aim from here, but instead i rolled the plane back upside to do an immelmann as soon as we crossed, as I saw that any aiming at you would end in a HO. After the roll ,yet nose up,I started the 0G dive.

I ended up pointed nose up at you and you ended up pointed nose down at me.

false. I crossed nose up. 0 G dive, in a simple try to force an overshoot in a HO with not much E lose.

We each skidded to try to land bullets on the other. I smoked you and you missed.

True and false. I did skid, just as saw the 0G move wasnt enough to screw your aim. I did fire, only when I started hearing pings from your plane. In no point of the move I went for a HO,as I was pointing all the time to a spot in your port wing (so a collision wasnt possible) ,I resorted my last ditch moves to force you to evade,as now it was clear you were searching to HO me and I had been too slow to avoid it.

We passed about a wing apart - me just blow and outside your port wing. You died. I lived. End of story.

You just admitted you HOed me after affirming in your previous posts that you NEVER intended to do that ,and that from your view it never was a HO. Enough said from your part. You lied.


On my side I have to say that I could had gone up instead the 0G dive. But that'd have given you my six, still with another spit near. no way in that.

I have to admit,that my evasives were very simple and not very problematic. True,as I never expected a HO in that situation, I only tried the evasives and to fire back when I saw your tracers coming.

You did a headon in an one-life event, when you were 2vs1.That is in my notebook a dweeb move. In no way I tried to HO-now tell me who's the dweeb here?.


The film is all the proof I need and anyone is welcome to view it and see. You are just a crybaby, RAM. I expected better and thought you were a better player.

I was wrong. You are just a dweeb.



Oh, send it to them. Same offer here. Your first answer stated CLEARLY that you didnt HO me.

Your last one refutes first.

Tell me who is telling fiction stories here?.

Renfield I may be a Crybaby, and a bad loser (Use to be a good one except when I am killed in dweeb HOs and 1K kills).

But you are a HO dweeb. A lucky one, I should have aimed at you and put 100 rounds of 20mm on your sorry dweeb nose.

For sure you wont be braggin now about your "I returned, damaged, but returned"...



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-09-2000).]