Clearing Your Six

[spit16nooby]

I fly the 109K-4 and the 109G-2 a lot and have tons of trouble getting people off my six.  A lot of times I will extend especially with the K-4 but often can't with the G-2.  Also manuevaribility is often not the option with the K-4 but is possible with the G-2.  One of my biggest problems is shaking Spit 16s and La-7s(which are great planes and this is not a whine that they are too good I just have problems with them).  The K-4 is a tight race to out accelerate the 16 and requires equal e state to get away but with the K-4 it is useless.  Against the La neither stand a chance.  Also as already stated manuevarabilty is useless with both 109s against these planes.  So what would you guys reccomend.

[Spikes]

The G2 is a good turner. Not as good as an E4, but flown right, you can turn with most planes. Don't be afraid to lose some E and get into a turn fight with it. I'm not saying drop all E to get into a turn fight with a A6M2...but you can get into a little turn fight with an F4U or something of the same turn radius.

[spit16nooby]

I looked at dockongonzos i'm close to even with La and would probably end up in a matter of pilot skill.  Turning with the Spit 16 is useless for extended periods.

[DoNKeY]

I suggest getting with someone who knows the 109's a little better then me (agent or any of the muppets/other people come to mind) so that they can help you.

For me, (and I fly the g2 whenever I take a break from the 38) in the g2 (or any plane) I try to not let people get close in on my six, as in 600/400 or closer.  If someone is coming in on my six from say 1k out, I'll start a gentle turn into them, and then at about 600 (or when I sense they're about to fire) I'll pull up and barrel roll onto they're six for the reverse.  If the E states are somewhat similar, I can usually get a decent shot off. 

If someone is on your six say 600 out, it's going to be a bit different.  Your always going to be in control in this situation in the sense that you decide where the fight is going to go.  The person on your six has to follow you if they want to shoot you down.  So, you decide where the fight is going, and the other guy has to react to you, meaning you'll have a "time" advantage over them.  If the E states are about the same in our little example, I would start a scissors.  I'd open the throttle with WEP, and roll left and flat turn, and then back of throttle as I roll back right.  I might add a bit of vertical when reversing back, but not necessarily.  Most likely they'll go for the shot, and if they miss they're going to over shoot, which then hopefully you can use to covert to the offensive.  Obviously this all depends on the situation.  If I had alt, I might try a diving turn and then try to reverse back into them.

donkey

[Messiah]

I think it's best to learn from watching films.  Here's a couple I came across in my folder that show the art:

Stuck in the middle

For k4: 1v3 k4

Watch and learn

[Soulyss]

I usually scream "OH GOD" over and over again then berate my squadies when I die for not clearing my six sooner. 

[spit16nooby]

THose movies were fun to watch all those pilots had great skill and SA.

[Rich46yo]

I just had a battle with a guy in a 109, I dont know what kind, and the battle was decided, LA7 vs 109, by his first mistake in going in on another  con and thinking I couldnt climb up to him and get behind him. Little did he know I had my speed up fast and was able to climb into his 6. Anyway he did a series of mini loops and dives utilizing the strengths of the 109 in both climbing and diving. This went on for a few minutes with both of us riding the edge and I'll bet he didn't even know how close I was to losing my advantage. Trying to get to killing distance against a good 109 stick, even on his 6, when your in an LA isn't all that easy. Not when he keeps the fight into the vertical.

Luckily he flattened out for a second to long at 600 yrds and I got a lucky burst into him. I wish I had filmed it cause that would have been a good video to view regarding your question. I forget who it was but I think he was better then I, I just got lucky getting on his 6 while in a 5 eny airplane.

If its any consolation a K4 in the hands of somebody skilled in an airplane a LA driver notices immediately. Its a very capable airplane and the odds a noob is in it is extremely low. A 109K4 is a serious threat to a LA-7.

[humble]

I think the 1st issue here is in recognizing that 85% of the fight is in the pilot not the plane. A well flown 109 of any flavor is going to be very capable vs the "average" spit or la-7 driver.

A lot of times I will extend especially with the K-4 but often can't with the G-2.  Also manuevaribility is often not the option with the K-4 but is possible with the G-2.  One of my biggest problems is shaking Spit 16s and La-7s(which are great planes and this is not a whine that they are too good I just have problems with them).  The K-4 is a tight race to out accelerate the 16 and requires equal e state to get away but with the K-4 it is useless.  Against the La neither stand a chance.  Also as already stated manuevarabilty is useless with both 109s against these planes

This is the heart of your problem, your not really fighting. Your either exploiting a positional advantage or running. If you dont believe you can win a fight you wont.

[uberslet]

I fly the 109K-4 and the 109G-2 a lot and have tons of trouble getting people off my six.  A lot of times I will extend especially with the K-4 but often can't with the G-2.  Also manuevaribility is often not the option with the K-4 but is possible with the G-2.  One of my biggest problems is shaking Spit 16s and La-7s(which are great planes and this is not a whine that they are too good I just have problems with them).  The K-4 is a tight race to out accelerate the 16 and requires equal e state to get away but with the K-4 it is useless.  Against the La neither stand a chance.  Also as already stated manuevarabilty is useless with both 109s against these planes.  So what would you guys reccomend.

the K4 is a monster in the vertical, if you need to, pull them to vert.

[Thing]

Tom Cruise said it best, "Gonna hit the breaks and hell fly right by"       

[EskimoJoe]

Tom Cruise said it best, "Gonna hit the breaks and he'll fly right by"       

[Thing]

Ooops  sorry about my poor grammar 


Thanks Eskimo   

[Noir]

109's (and most german planes) are way more maneuvrable if you use less engine power, especially when your nose is towards the ground. As m00t said to me, you wont be able to shake anybody at full engine power.

[BaldEagl]

I fly the 109K-4 and the 109G-2 a lot and have tons of trouble getting people off my six.  A lot of times I will extend especially with the K-4 but often can't with the G-2.  Also manuevaribility is often not the option with the K-4 but is possible with the G-2.  One of my biggest problems is shaking Spit 16s and La-7s(which are great planes and this is not a whine that they are too good I just have problems with them).  The K-4 is a tight race to out accelerate the 16 and requires equal e state to get away but with the K-4 it is useless.  Against the La neither stand a chance.  Also as already stated manuevarabilty is useless with both 109s against these planes.  So what would you guys reccomend.

If you think that "manuevarabilty is useless" in the K4 I suggest you look up Agent360.  He and I have had several engagements.  One night, I was in a Spit IX, he was in a K4 and we had an extended stall fight (probably 5 minutes) just outside a furball.  The K4 is actually quite manouverable and the G2 even more so.  Either one is quite capable against an La-7 or a Spit XVI.

I might suggest this starting point:  Instead of extending (running), stay and fight and die until you get it right.  Running teaches you nothing about the capabilities of your plane.  If you're afraid to die in the MA's, then find someone in a Spit or an La to fight with in the TA.