Author Topic: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists  (Read 18638 times)

Offline SIK1

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2008, 11:28:15 PM »
You wish.

SIK1 there's some tell-tale hints that a review isn't making things up, and one of those is undebatable facts like skewed/spliced interview segments.  It doesn't prove the rest of the review's true, but it does tip the scales to its benefit.  This movie sounds like a stinker.  No impartial documentary maker screws with evidence..

You mean like in a Micheal Moore flick?

Mustaine you beat me to it.  :aok
« Last Edit: April 20, 2008, 11:30:32 PM by SIK1 »
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Offline SOB

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2008, 11:32:10 PM »
Congrats, Mustaine, on winning an argument inside your own head.  Or could you point out where in either Oct's or Moot's posts they even mentioned Michael Moore?
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Offline SkyRock

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2008, 12:02:07 AM »
life evolves :aok

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Offline majic

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2008, 12:29:18 AM »
What's amazing to me, is it seems just about everyone on either side of the debate seem to think an omnipotent being couldn't set the physical rules of the universe in the first place.  Science and religion are not mutually exclusive.

Offline moot

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2008, 01:08:32 AM »
Deists/Theists/Creationists/etc do think so, as far as I've seen - dunno how you could mean anyone but atheists/agnostics/scientists/etc by that.
Such a being doing that, or not, is outside the scope of science.  Most of the people who get into these sorts of arguments just don't understand science in the first place.  Often enough, they don't understand philosophy of religion either.  Quite a few of them have a vague set of superstitions rather than religion.  A real hotch potch of nonsense.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 01:10:33 AM by moot »
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Offline Flatbar

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2008, 01:54:58 AM »
Making around 3 mil on over 1000 screens on the opening weekend, Expelled isn't doing too well. By compairison, MM's Sicko totaled almost 4.5 mil on under 500 screens for it's first weekend.

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Offline moot

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2008, 03:52:21 AM »
Inevitably caught Shermer & co's attention:
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17.html
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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2008, 04:13:40 AM »
all I see is yet another purse fights between two religions.  the darwinist's should go on and build some churches where the general public is allowed to enter and worship.  they could use L Ron Hubbard as the paradigm for their program.

Offline moot

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2008, 04:31:38 AM »
Science is a religion Storch?

From the Shermer article, on Stein's documentary:
Quote
Even more disturbing than these distortions is the film’s other thesis that Darwinism inexorably leads to atheism, Communism, Fascism and the Holocaust. Despite the fact that hundreds of millions of religious believers fully accept the theory of evolution, Stein claims that we are in an ideological war between a scientific natural worldview that leads to the gulag archipelago and Nazi gas chambers, and a religious supernatural worldview that leads to freedom, justice and the American way. The film’s visual motifs leave no doubt in the viewer’s emotional brain that Darwinism is leading America into an immoral quagmire. We’re going to hell in a Darwinian hand basket. Cleverly edited interview excerpts from scientists are interspersed with various black-and-white clips for guilt by association with: bullies beating up on a 98-pound weakling, Charlton Heston’s character in Planet of the Apes being blasted by a water hose, Nikita Khrushchev pounding his fist on a United Nations desk, East Germans captured trying to scale the Berlin Wall, and Nazi crematoria remains and Holocaust victims being bulldozed into mass graves. This propaganda production would make Joseph Goebbels proud.

Are you saying, Storch, that to follow protocol such as science's methodology for testing ideas with practical experiments, makes someone into a darwinist?
Not only has Creationism been mostly wrong in its predictions so far, it also provides nothing in the way of scientific or technological progress.  Even if it weren't pseudoscience, it's a dead end.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 04:36:46 AM by moot »
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Offline cpxxx

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2008, 04:49:55 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is no possible debate between creationism and evolution. Creationism is a religious belief based on the infallibility of the bible. If cannot be proved or disproved. It cannot grow. It's a story in a book. Not all Christians even believe in creation. Only those who for some reason cling to the belief that every word of the Bible is from God. They are a minority, a vocal minority.

Evolution on the other hand is based on science, it changes as more information is discovered. It is not a religious experience and vitally it does not in any way disprove the existence of a God. What it does do however is prove the Bible is not accurate when it comes to describing creation thus underming the creationists entire world. Hence their intense hostility to evolution.

Creationists are ridiculous in their attempts to discredit evolution. If they had an alternative theory better than a single story in a single book written thousands of years ago. They might have more credibility.

On the other hand Intelligent design is almost as farcical. It almost acknowledges evolution but tries to add input from God at certain points.

What a joke.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 04:53:55 AM by cpxxx »

Offline Shuckins

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2008, 06:38:22 AM »
See it...then pass judgment on it.   That's what some of you leftist types demanded of the critics of Michael Moore's spliced and diced tripe.  You're condemning it out-of-hand, with nothing more to go on than a short review on an internet website. 

Note also in that review that one of the scientists being interviewed posited that life may have been brought to earth by aliens, without realizing that theory admits the possibility of "intelligent design." 

If nothing else, Stein's film may awaken some Americans to the hypocrisy and heavy-handedness of pc academia toward opposing viewpoints.

Who would be willing to bet that Stein's "documentary" will NOT be nominated for an oscar?

Offline myelo

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2008, 08:04:28 AM »
See it...then pass judgment on it.   

OK, I did and I will.

It's crap.


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Offline lazs2

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2008, 08:12:46 AM »
Is it really that bad?   I must admit that looking at the reviews.. they are almost livid with rage.

Why is that?  they didn't get mad at michell moores total crap.    I mean.. the guy staged interviews and lied over and over and no one even hinted that he did in the reviews. 

Albore lied through his teeth and was so sickly sweet you almost got cavities but no reviewer even hinted that you were gonna see a big lie.

But when it comes to darwin and god.. the critics are all experts.. all scientists.

I don't care about darwinism one way or the other... some of it is likely true but.... the agenda of the liberal journalists if again very clear.   

lazs

Offline SkyRock

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2008, 08:40:09 AM »
Is it really that bad?   I must admit that looking at the reviews.. they are almost livid with rage.

Why is that?  they didn't get mad at michell moores total crap.    I mean.. the guy staged interviews and lied over and over and no one even hinted that he did in the reviews. 

Albore lied through his teeth and was so sickly sweet you almost got cavities but no reviewer even hinted that you were gonna see a big lie.

But when it comes to darwin and god.. the critics are all experts.. all scientists.

I don't care about darwinism one way or the other... some of it is likely true but.... the agenda of the liberal journalists if again very clear.   

lazs
Do you think science is liberal?

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Offline lazs2

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Re: Ben Stein vs. Sputtering Atheists
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2008, 08:48:33 AM »
I think journalists and professors and for the most part... academics are far more liberal than the average person.   I would say that some scientists don't even know what they are politically as they don't give it much real thought.

Do you think that journalists.. film critics.. entertainers.. and professors are conservative?

lazs