Author Topic: Med League resignation 2  (Read 1556 times)

Offline BUG_EAF322

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Med League resignation 2
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2000, 09:51:00 AM »
Think off the effort made by busc Zigrat and Camo
they setup a scenario and when Afrika corps comes around u all begin too whine about advantages etc.

I was dissapointed noone off my squad showed up
We should play in these usermade scenario's too get em better in the future.

I really respect u guys make a scenario so i'm still in.

U italians are going a bit too realistic  
retreating why??


I love too see ur 205's are flown bye u guys.


ciao


Offline Naso

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« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2000, 09:52:00 AM »
Straffo, RAM, Verm, Gatt,
Dans une communauté composé par personnes des toutes diffèrent culture,
fundamental es de comprender en todas las ocasiones y non hay importancia
the language you use, the basic fact is the understanding,
regola fondamentale per una convivenza civile.

 

Naso
(che buffone!!)
 


[This message has been edited by Naso (edited 10-31-2000).]

Offline straffo

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« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2000, 10:34:00 AM »
LOLMAO  
Naso you got the point I'm european as you  
and the one of the reason I'm in this comunauté is the diversity ... cultural diffence is a gold mine ! we can learn a lot.
Provided we didn't clash for some stupid "historic" reason like in Mid East ...

It's not always funny jocking about Italian attitude during WWII as far as I know (for France) it was really better to be occupied by Italian than ^$**@@ Nazi (I've not said german   )
And I know that French tank have 1 forward gear and 5 rear  

arhurb

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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2000, 10:39:00 AM »
Si tomas la decisión de entrar en un escenario, asumes el riesgo de que no te guste y la responsabilidad de terminarlo. Es una decisión libre con información completa, en la mayoría de los casos. Es decir, desde mi punto de vista, el "me aburro" no vale como decisión de salida (o el de los defectos, como dije en el post anterior). Si te has registrado, te has registrado. No haberlo hecho. Lo contrario supondría tirar en la cara de los diseñadores todo el trabajo que hayan podido poner en él. Las reglas del techo de altitud estaban puestas de antemano. Eran conocidas por todos. Y, además, lo que es malo para los 190 no lo es tanto para los 109...todo es relativo. En cualquier caso, mi punto en la discusión no se centra en las características del escenario, sino en la falta de respeto hacia el trabajo ajeno (que se nos da gratis) que significa decir "me voy" sin un buen motivo que respalde la decisión.


----- English version (to my best knowledge) ------


If you make the decission of getting into a scenario, you take the risk of not likeing it, and assume the responsibility to finish it. It is a free choice, with full information in most cases. That is to say, "I quit because I'm bored" is not a valid argument, in my humble opinion (neither that the rules are unrealistic/unfair, as I explained in my previous post). If you register, you are registered. Think twice, next time. Quitting without a valid argument means throwing all the work done on the designer/designer team's face/s. Rules regarding ceilings, are known in advance by everyone. Besides that, what is bad for a FW190 may not be bad at all for a 109...everithing is relative. Anyway, my point is not about each Scenario's rules, but how the "I quit" without no solid reason means lack of respect for another one's work (work given to us for free, so far).

----- End of English version ------------


----- Italian version --------------------
----- French version ---------------------
----- German version ---------------------
----- any Swahili?   -----------------------


This is an awesome communitiy, after all.  

Pepino.

VISCONTI

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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2000, 11:07:00 AM »
Ragazzi,

Il fato di credere che ogni vosra motivazione verra' presa come una scusa non vi giustifica nel non esprimere un vostro parere, siamo adulti? cerchiamo di dimostrarlo!
Nel nostro forum aperto ho chiesto le motivazioni, sono state date e finalmente c'e' materiale sul quale lavorare. Come si puo' "crescere" se non si hanno le basi su cui costruire?
Forse il vostro ritiro arriva in un momento molto delicato, ecco perche' alcuni di noi non lo vedono come una mossa "corretta", in piu' l'assenza di giustificazioni non puo' far altro che fomentare questo pensiero.

Commenti e suggerimenti devono essere fatti apertamente in modo che tutti ne abbiano guadagno. Riservare la discussione solo tra CM e' estremamente limitativo, infondo coloro che apprezzano o meno uno scenario sono i partecipanti. Almeno questo e' il mio pensiero.

Il fatto che gli italiani devono odiarsi ad ogni costo e' veramente ridicolo. Bisogna imparare a parlare e ad ascoltare, questo e' indirizzato ad entrambi. Non avete voglia di reputarvi amici nostri? ok no problem. Cercate almeno di essere corretti e rispettate il vostro nemico!
Se volete ignorarci, fate pure, lo faremo anche noi, ma nella scala evolutiva dei sentimenti ci sono questi passaggi obbligati:
1) amicizia
2) discordia
3) odio
4) indifferenza
E' giunto il momento dell'odio??

<<<"tradimenti, vigliaccheria, e quant'altro">>>

credo che maxo abbia spigato chiaramente cosa intendesse perche' ripetere quest'accusa infondata? C'e' malizia da entrambe le parti a quanto vedo, infondo voi ci avete piu' volte descritti come nostalgici e forse ne siete talmente conviti che per voi e' la verita'.

Questo e' molto triste, specialmente per me, dove in Svizzera (paese dove vivo) sono considerato un "terone" una minoranza etnica, e qui tra italiani invece mi sento accusato di essere un fascita o simile.
Per noi qui all'estero esiste solo una cosa tra italiani, amicizia e solidarieta'!
Probabilmente queste cose in patria non si imparano e ci si permette il lusso di discriminare con estrema facilita'.
Questo mi disgusta molto, ecco perche' a volte non sono "gentile" con voi.

RAM,

if your problem is that you have always spits over your head, then try to gain advantage.
No one force you to engage them if you hare in disadvantage.

Pepino, BUG_EAF322

I appreciate your comment.


No one is forced to partecipate in these events, but if you dont like how these scenarios hare build, please give at the designer your comment, open the discussion on all players and try to be collaborative not destructive.


PS: Vermillion, have you read my answer here?:
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/006162.html



Offline Maxopti1

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Med League resignation 2
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2000, 11:13:00 AM »
Ok, ho scatenato un flame senza volerlo.
Forse mi sono lasciato un pò prendere dalla delusione del vedervi mollare e nella foga del momento ho usato delle parole un pò dure, porgo le mie più sentite scuse per il modo e i termini usati ..... ( non si vede, ma mi sono cosparso il capo di cenere e mi sono inginocchiato sui ceci  )

Però: Continuo a pensare, indipendentemente da tutto ciò che può essere accaduto e dai vostri contatti personali con i disegnatori dello scenario, che il ritirarsi a scenario iniziato non sia corretto.
Posso capire che se alcuni hanno dei problemi possano chiedere di essere esonerati e/o sostituiti, ma non concepisco il ritiro della squadra.
E' possibile, che ci siano delle ulteriori problematiche che io non conosco, ma per quello che è nelle mie possibilità cerco di collaborare con gli organizzatori dello scenario.
Se alla fine non sarò soddisfatto, non volerò altri scenari, però per questo ho preso l'impegno e lo porto fino in fondo ( salvo che mia moglie non mi dia l'out out, ma questa rientra tra le cause di forza maggiore   ).
Non ho nulla pro o contro il 4° Stormo inteso come gruppo.
Non ho nulla contro nessun componente del 4° ho conosciuto e ho volato con alcuni di voi prima di conoscere AH,( ricordo ancora una mitica seduta in EAW con Zio e Arf) e vi ritengo degli ottimi piloti, ma talvolta non vi capisco.
Gatt, nulla di personale, in quel momento avrei scritto esattamente la stessa cosa a chiunque avesse postato il messaggio, non era mia intenzione offenderti, volevo solo esternare uno stato d'animo.
Mi dispiace veramente che abbiate preso questa decisione e spero che ritorniate sui vostri passi, se non come gruppo, come singoli piloti.
Miiiiiiiiiii ........ quanto scrivo oggi! Basta!

Saluti.

Max



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In a way or in the other, to earth you will return.

Offline Maxopti1

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« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2000, 11:15:00 AM »
*** awkward attempt of translation   ***

Ok, I have instigated a flame without want it.
Perhaps I have left me a little bit take from the disappointment of the see you leaves and I in the heat of the moment have used words a little bit hard, I hand the my more you feel excuses for the way and the used terms. (you not see, but I have ash on the head and I am knelt on the bean  )

However: I continue to think, independently from all that could be happened and from your personal contacts with the draftsmen from scenery, that the retire to initiated scenery is not correct.
I could understand that if any has of the problems they could ask to have exonerated and/or replaced, but I don't conceive the withdrawal of the square.
Is possible, that there is of a ulterior problematic that I don't know, but for what is in my possibility I try to collaborate with the organizers from scenery.
If I at the end won't have satisfied, I won't fly other sceneries, however I that's why have taken the appointment and the harbor until after all (except that my wife doesn't devote herself the out out, but this reenters between the causes of better strength ).
I don't have nothing for or against the 4° Stormo understood like group.
I don't have nothing against no component of the 4° I have known and I have flown with any of you before know AH, (memory still a mythical session in EAW with Zio and Arf) and I there retain of the excellent pilots, but sometimes there doesn't understand.
Gatt, nothing of personal, I at that time would have written exactly the same thing to whoever  has posted the message, it was not my intention offend you, I wanted only point out a state of mind.
I am sorry really that you have taken this decision and I hope that you return on your footsteps, if not like group, like individuals pilots.
Miiiiiiiiiii.. I as write today! Enough!

Cheers.

Max

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When you are flown, there is an only certainty:
In a way or in the other, to earth you will return.

Offline gatt

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« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2000, 11:33:00 AM »
MAX,
for christ sake, all 4^Stormo guys are free to fly as walk-ons! However we cant fly as a whole squad, let alone as an all-italian squadron. Well, I understand that with my english its not easy to make myself understood.
Regards,

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4° Stormo Caccia - Knights
Macchi C.202's sting (1,9MByte film)
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2000, 11:43:00 AM »
Ik denk dat we de koppen weer ff bijelkaar moeten steken en er gewoon een leuke scenario van maken. Ja toch, niet dan, nou dan. Als dit nou een keer leuk wordt dan zullen we meer scenario's zien. Ik in mijn P38 jij in je 205 samen vechten in de lucht enzo blah blah.Wat ik nu allemaal zeg doet er niet echt toe want dit verhaltje moet gewoon lang worden. Want dat is bijna net zo leesbaar als italiaans   maar goed affijn een borrel van florijn en veel grolsh bier.


Anyway let's make it a nice scenario from now on  

Offline Dinger

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« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2000, 11:57:00 AM »
Geezus guys, in English, da capo:
1) We did indicate our problems with the design, both those that involved the way it was run (privately) and those such as design of interest to the community (publicly)

2) When we cannot guarantee squad attendance at an event, we must pull out. Period.  To do otherwise is unfair to the organizers.

3) If you want a reason why the hell we'd pull out instead of ride it through, here you go: The Med League was originally planned to end before Verm's Africa Corps started.  As a group we signed on, viewing the Med League as a form of preparation for the latter scenario.  Now, because of organizational difficulties we have the Med League and Africa Corps running concurrently.  Frankly, we feel a prior commitment to A.C., and are unable to continue our commitment as a squad to the M.L.

That we'd be accused of treason and unethical behaviour for honoring a prior commitment is entirely ludicrous.  That somehow we left because we didn't enjoy the event is also offensive: I had great fun in all the frames I flew in, and so did most of my squaddies.

To say that we didn't express our criticism of the organization is to ignore the fact that we criticized it plenty.  To say that we should have attacked the organizers or at least their organization in leaving is to claim that, in order to leave, we have to insult those who made this event possible. To call us cowards for leaving at all is to ignore the fact that we have real obligations.

And yeah, the med league has very little to do with a real war, so stop claiming that we'd face the firing squad for such action.  Maybe, but they'd already have knocked off several other participants.  They don't shoot only deserters.

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2000, 12:33:00 PM »
And it is not fun to always be at a disadvantage  

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VISCONTI

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« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2000, 12:40:00 PM »
improve SA  
or try to fly at 10k-15k in MA  

just different opinion, anyway I love to fight at alt disadvantage  

Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2000, 12:44:00 PM »
Gatt and 4º Stormo Caccia

Thank you for flying in the Mediterranean League.  It has been a pleasure fighting beside you.  As a squadron, you have done an excellent job.  In every frame, you've fulfilled your mission with minimal losses.  As individuals, you've acted gentlemanly and also hold the only German Cross awarded to date in the history of the Med League.

You leaving the Med League will be a heavy blow to the Axis, no doubt about that. I hope I will see you as walkons, taking over the deserted Macchis of the western front.

Salute 4º Stormo Caccia - see you soon!

Axis CO - Camo



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Offline RAM

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« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2000, 01:23:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by VISCONTI:
improve SA    
or try to fly at 10k-15k in MA    

just different opinion, anyway I love to fight at alt disadvantage    

I never fly over 20K in MA, rarely go over 15K.

I like to fight at disadvantage...but not all day long. And a scenario is supposed to be there to HAVE FUN!. No such fun if you can't fight (190As can't fight over 25K. Period. they can barely fly, let alone fight)

RAM,

if your problem is that you have always spits over your head, then try to gain advantage.
No one force you to engage them if you hare in disadvantage.



Visconti you tell me to dow what? noone FORCES me to engage?...in an scenario?...is this FS2000 or a combat simulator's scenario?.

If I go into a scenario I expect some fun and action. Not to be forced first to climb to 30K in a 190A(wich is boring enough), and then to dive to the deck as soon as the first 32K con shows up. Because when that happens, the only chance for a 190 is to dive to the deck. Maybe you find this interesnting and entertaining. For me, to have fun is to fight. In advantage or disadvantage, but to fight. And I repeat, a 190A barely flies at 30K. Let alone fight.

Dont take this personally, nor as a flame. Is only that we seem to have different view about the concept of "having fun"  

Pepino...yo no estaba apuntado. Si lo hubiera estado, me hubiera ido de todas maneras. Con todo el respeto a los diseñadores, tengo cosas mas interesantes q hacer aparte de ser masacrado por una nube de sputnikfires     .

Como dices, es simplemente q vemos las cosas desde puntos de vista distintos  



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-31-2000).]

Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2000, 01:32:00 PM »
Quote by RAM :

"I like to fight at disadvantage...but not all day long"

it's only for two hours