RAF vs. LW?

[mx22]

Would anyone be interested in making this one? Give Brits one or two B26s (for the lack of RAF bombers) and a lot of Spits and let them fly "circus", while LW will try to engage them?

Just an idea...

mx22

[Kieren]

I'd be in, and would fly either side.  

[ygsmilo]

109F vs. Spit V sounds like fun,  Get hold of BaneX, he is the event officer for JG 2, I am sure he could arrange something.

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Milo

"A MiG on your 6 is better than no MiG at all"

JG2 "Richthofen"

[Shamus]

What Kieren said I like Ygsmilo's idea too would be a furballers dream!!

Shamus

[Minotaur]

Might be better to pretend the B-26 is a LW Heinkel and play the BoB.

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
Trainer

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 03-03-2000).]

[mx22]

Hey ygsmilo,

Since you are in the JG2 anyway, I think it will be easier for you to find BaneX - just post a message in squad's board and refer him to this dicussion.
Also, since there are some responses here - does anyone has a clear idea of how this circuses worked? Were RAF fighters engaging LW with advantage or was is more of a equal terms engagement in terms of alt. Also, I know that some circuses included more then 500 RAF fighters, question is how many planes would LW put up against them. Anyone here can answer these questions?

mx22

[mx22]

 

Originally posted by Minotaur:
Might be better to pretend the B-26 is a LW Heinkel and play the BoB.

I think B26 has way to many gunner positions for the LW planes. Plus for BoB we would need SpitI and Bf109E (SpitI's engine had that problem with positive G manuevers) and of course a map with water

mx22

[ygsmilo]

I sent BaneX an email to read this thread.

I was reading one of my books about JG 26 last nite and the one of the circus engaged was described was 8 A-20's escort by 4 RAF Wings which I think would be about 400 aircraft.  They were spread out of course hi cover low ect.  Part of the reason was at the time 2 gruppes of JG 26 were flying the FW190 A4 which had a significant performance advatage over the Spit V at the time.  It was Fighter Commands intention to bring up the LW to fight and have the numbers to put the "hurt on them".  This was in late 1942 to mid 43.  If you look at the loss numbers what happend was the LW had a huge kill to loss ratio as they only attacked the fighters when they had the advantage.  Fighter Command in time cut back on this type of operation until the Spit 9 was in sufficent quantites to be operationally deployed.

 

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Milo

"A MiG on your 6 is better than no MiG at all"

JG2 "Richthofen"

[mx22]

 

Originally posted by ygsmilo:
I was reading one of my books about JG 26 last nite and the one of the circus engaged was described was 8 A-20's escort by 4 RAF Wings which I think would be about 400 aircraft.  They were spread out of course hi cover low ect.  Part of the reason was at the time 2 gruppes of JG 26 were flying the FW190 A4 which had a significant performance advatage over the Spit V at the time.  It was Fighter Commands intention to bring up the LW to fight and have the numbers to put the "hurt on them".  This was in late 1942 to mid 43.  If you look at the loss numbers what happend was the LW had a huge kill to loss ratio as they only attacked the fighters when they had the advantage.  Fighter Command in time cut back on this type of operation until the Spit 9 was in sufficent quantites to be operationally deployed.

I guess this means that RAF would come in at low alt and then intercepted by LW from above. But then of course, we should make something like 2:3 LW to RAF ratio. Am I correct on that one?

mx22

[ygsmilo]

Not exactly, The RAF would have high cover, a sweep out front, flanking cover etc.  what would happen is the LW would refuse combat unless they did have alt or another advantage ie. numbers, position, or wait until the RAF were withdrawing.  I would recommend anyone to read the book.  And of course I cant remember the exact title or author! JG 26 is in the title.

BTW the RAF ace Johnnie Johnson relates an ambush during this timeframe in which his Wing took heavy losses.

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Milo

"A MiG on your 6 is better than no MiG at all"

JG2 "Richthofen"

[BaneX]

This sounds like a very good idea.. I'm sure the JG2 would love to be the LW in this one. Let's see about setting up a date to run this, preferably a weekend date so most of the squadron will hve a good chance of attending. We have 20+ active members and would be a good representation of the LW side. If ya need to contact me here's my email.

 encallain@stic.net

Beats havin to take on those uber 38's flyin around  



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BaneX

JG2 "Richthofen"

[Kieren]

I would also recommend getting HT to set the arena to "radar off" as the standard for all mini-Scenarios.

[mx22]

 

Originally posted by ygsmilo:
Not exactly, The RAF would have high cover, a sweep out front, flanking cover etc.  what would happen is the LW would refuse combat unless they did have alt or another advantage ie. numbers, position, or wait until the RAF were withdrawing.

That is my point ygsmilo,

As you said, LW won't engage unless it was in favorable position. That's why we will have LW plane high and RAF lower. But at the same time for every 3 RAF planes, LW will have only 2. This way it will be more or less on equal terms.
The mission goal will be to destroy LW air base (not capture though) and return to the base. LW will be able to attack as soon as RAF crosses the agreed place and countinue to attack untill either force is destroyed or RAF crosses some point on it's way back. Replanes will be allowed to all LW fliers who managed to bail out or ditch(hmm sounds like a good reason to shot down those chutes  )

Any additions or changes here?

mx22

[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 03-03-2000).]

[Chain]

I'm in...  

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Chain
Aki Holopainen
     aki.holopainen@quicknet.inet.fi      
HLeLv FennoManiacs

[ygsmilo]

I see your point now mx (I went and had a few beers for lunch), I would say that the RAF could employ any formation they choose. But the LW should have radar (historical componet) that would allow the LW to have a tactical advantage.  The bombers are not there to cause damage, they are bait.  Your 2/3 LW, RAF ratio would be historically (sp?) correct but the LW should be able to fly the G-2 or 6 (I think the G-2 was available at the time) to reflect the lack of the FW 190 A4 in the plane set.  Good post mx.

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Milo

"A MiG on your 6 is better than no MiG at all"

JG2 "Richthofen"