Author Topic: What's with the uber maneuvers?  (Read 7234 times)

Offline Animl

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What's with the uber maneuvers?
« on: June 04, 2008, 06:54:43 PM »
Following a 109 straight up on 3 occasions now. His 6 suddenly becomes the nose, no turning, no movements at all, as if the plane just turned inside out to a 180. I'm looking at the tail and watching the nose come right through it. I think I have 2 of these on film. Mow once or twice that I don't mention I attribute to game lag, but when I keep seeing the same thing over and over,... it's bigger then just lag and excuses.

Next the super stall uber tactic used by some in the MA,  a maneuvers only a F model jet could make, and they exploit it on a regular basis (I will not mention them as to never give credit or recognition to a bunch of dweebs). Yes there were stalling that put the chaser as the target, but not like this. NO WAY I don't think any WWII AC could handle the stress from Full speed to a dead stop instantly with no damage. Breaking stress in a AC should be implemented.This is more commonly used by a group of people in the MA and swear it's normal. Then they refer to it being done with F-16s, great it can, But last I checked there is no F model jet AC in the game. Not only was it a move that required some luck in RL, it's done over and over and over within seconds, and they never seem to really lose any E. Sad part is they think this makes them great pilot  because they learned how to exploit the code. They are also the biggest whiners in the MA ironically.

Now we will get a long flow of users of these techniques sign in and dispute this, and whine their way so it doesn't get corrected. I'm starting to see catering to the whinning seals a little. But this is not my first BBQ. Planes do not turn inside out and 180, and prop planes are not going to come to a dead stop like a car at a stop light from top speed.

It doesn't take a super intelligent brain to know it's just gaming the game, the only skill it requires is how to possibly exploit delay and holes in coding.

Is it possible to get these holes plugged>?

That is all, <G>

Animl



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Offline moot

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2008, 06:55:36 PM »
Film.
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Offline Strip

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2008, 06:59:54 PM »
All speculation til we see what your talking about....

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Offline SuBWaYCH

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2008, 07:00:26 PM »
Film is the only way to prove it.
Axis C.O. for Battle of the Dnieper, Winter '43

Air superiority is a condition for all operations, at sea, on land, and in the air. - Air Marshal Arthur Tedder

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Offline Bronk

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2008, 07:35:08 PM »
See Rule #4

Offline toonces3

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2008, 07:36:12 PM »
Another vote for film, but not to watch it myself.  For you to watch it.

I never could understand how some folks make some of these planes dance like they do.  Watching a fight from their perspective on film is very enlightening.

Not saying there aren't FM loopholes...I just don't know where they are or how to exploit them.
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Offline Motherland

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2008, 07:46:47 PM »
The 109 has a great rate of climb. What you are describing is called a 'rope', and real German fighter pilots used it to take advantage of the 109's climb ability. The thing is, when you go up your fighting gravity, which slows down your aircraft (it doesn't really put G forces on it, however). The reversal at the top is likely a hammerhead, which is pretty common among not just jet fighter aircraft (I guess) but among propellor driven aerobatic aircraft.

Offline RTR

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2008, 07:56:31 PM »
yep Motherland hit that nail right on the head.

You are getting "roped". There is nothing magical or untoward happening to you. You are getting dragged up by someone who has more "E" until you stall out and become the snack of the minute.

If you see me in any of the arenas, feel free to give me a shout. I would be more than happy to help you learn how to recognize it and defend against it.

Also, pop into the TA and if there is a trainer in there they will be able to get you sorted out in short order.

My ingame handle is the same as my BBS handle.

cheers,

RTR
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Offline moot

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2008, 08:06:53 PM »
Airframe breakup from high speed spins would be great, though.
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Offline bizz

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2008, 08:10:12 PM »
Airframe breakup from high speed spins would be great, though.

Is airframe stress even modeled in AH?? Now that I think of it I can't remember ever ripping my wings off in a High G pullout.
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Offline Motherland

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2008, 08:19:15 PM »
Is airframe stress even modeled in AH?? Now that I think of it I can't remember ever ripping my wings off in a High G pullout.
Fly the 262 and you'll soon find out. I see spitfires do it occasionally also.

Offline moot

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2008, 08:24:26 PM »
Is airframe stress even modeled in AH?? Now that I think of it I can't remember ever ripping my wings off in a High G pullout.
Only longitudinal - as far as I've seen.. I think they'd probably break if you really overstressed them in such a spin, but it's pretty hard to get the planes into those high speed spins in AH. The best instance that people said looked like the plane should break up, but doesn't, was in the thread where Tango demonstrated his P51D flat plate.  I'm pretty sure I can get the Ta152 to wig out about as bad at at least that speed, and it doesn't break either.  The mossie's old spins also happened at high-medium speed, putting you in red/blackouts for the first few seconds, and it didn't break up either.
I don't think the models are rigged so that only controlled high G pullouts can cause damage (e.g. break one h-stab and the other seems to break from overstress)..  Another possibility is that the pilot is counted as dead if there's a truly catastrophic breakup.. The only one that'd match this is the 163, and probably the 262 (people have said they sometimes explode for no reason during high G maneuvers)..  But there's no way to tell if that's really a breakup or just the pilot going to mush.
Fly the 262 and you'll soon find out. I see spitfires do it occasionally also.
I actualy saw a D9 rip his wings off the other day..
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 08:29:08 PM by moot »
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Offline Stang

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2008, 09:25:28 PM »
This kid apparently doesn't understand a simple overshoot.  Just because it doesn't look like he's moving doesn't mean he isn't.  All motion is relative to yours.  I haven't seen anything fishy nor any group of pilots "exploiting" the coad. 

Offline toonces3

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2008, 09:26:16 PM »
Well, I didn't want to presume that the OP doesn't recognize a simple rope.

When I say film it and watch it from the other perspective, there's this trick I've seen alot of folks do where we'll merge and then go vertical and while I'm looking straight up at the other plane it's almost as if the plane is on a rubber band...it slings out and then is nose on my canopy and I'm getting pinged.  I asked someone about it and then watched it on film and what the enemy is doing is pulling throttle and dropping flaps over the top.  It's not something that is easy to discern (for me) in the middle of a fight, and I was always confounded by the maneuver until I broke it down on tape.

Another night I was getting spanked repeatedly by Storch in the AvA.  So I taped a 1v1 and watched how he was manipulating his throttle and angles to out-turn me.  I just couldn't figure it out until I watched it on tape.

With respect to G-force damage, I've lost more A-20's to pulling off the wings on pull-out than I have from getting shot down in a dogfight with one.
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Offline moot

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Re: What's with the uber maneuvers?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2008, 09:40:42 PM »
Rope reverses are actualy slower than they should be, from what some experienced people have said.
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